Clip Gain like in ProTools?

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buzzsmith
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Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by buzzsmith »

Hi!

I've Googled and searched the DP 8 manual.

Am I missing something? Or is this feature in DP 9? (Ordered, BTW.)

http://www.protoolsproduction.com/clipgain/

A "pop-up" fader to adjust gain within a soundbite? Like to reduce an "sss" sibilance or to boost a "t" for instance?

I am familiar with the Bite Volume and Gain commands and, of course, the drawing in of volume lines.

(A client who is familiar with ProTools asked me to research this.)

Thanks!

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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by David Polich »

Pretty sure Bite Volume and gain is the equivalent of Clip Gain in PT. I.e., that is DP's "way of doing it." Are the "button pushes" the same as they are in PT? If that's what the client is asking, the answer is "no". But you can do the same thing in DP, there is just a slightly different method to it.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Phil O »

I think the only thing different about ProTool's implementation is that the waveform visually responds to the gain curve (if I'm reading it correctly). Other than that, DP has had this for some time. No pop-up window, as far as I know, but Change Continuous Data does that and a whole lot more.

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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by buzzsmith »

I think what she (the very picky vocal producer) likes is that you can make minor level corrections on a selected portion of a sound bite with a popup fader without affecting an automation line or actually entering a volume automation line when you're still in the premix stage.


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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by apanacci »

I use DP8 and PT 12. I love the clip gain in PT. I do not use automation until it is a must.I would rather use clip gain. I find automation for me can complicate things rather quickly. DP has it but it is not as "available" as in PT
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by bayswater »

It's not exactly the same in DP, but it's pretty simple but more powerful (I think -- I didn't use this a lot in PT).

There is a soundbite gain layer in the SE. It shows a white line representing the current gain level for a "clip". If you click somewhere in it, that creates a volume level point you can drag up and down. If you click at the beginning of the line, you can drag the whole line vertically, and change the gain but keep it constant for the duration of the clip. You can click in a few places to create several gain points creating a gain envelop, and then, lasso the whole envelop and move it up and down by grabbing the first of the points. You can use all the pencil and reshape tools to make it ramp, oscillate, change randomly ... And so on. I guess clicking on the start of the white line and moving it up and down is the equivalent of the PT pop up. To complete the equivalence, If you have the Cursor info strip showing at the top of the SE window, it will display the current gain level of the point being moved.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by buzzsmith »

bayswater wrote:It's not exactly the same in DP, but it's pretty simple but more powerful (I think -- I didn't use this a lot in PT).

There is a soundbite gain layer in the SE. It shows a white line representing the current gain level for a "clip". If you click somewhere in it, that creates a volume level point you can drag up and down. If you click at the beginning of the line, you can drag the whole line vertically, and change the gain but keep it constant for the duration of the clip. You can click in a few places to create several gain points creating a gain envelop, and then, lasso the whole envelop and move it up and down by grabbing the first of the points. You can use all the pencil and reshape tools to make it ramp, oscillate, change randomly ... And so on. I guess clicking on the start of the white line and moving it up and down is the equivalent of the PT pop up. To complete the equivalence, If you have the Cursor info strip showing at the top of the SE window, it will display the current gain level of the point being moved.
Thanks, bayswater!.

I found that yesterday and couldn't get it to work exactly right.

However, this morning I searched the manual and experimented a bit. (Now on DP 9.01.)

My issue yesterday, it appears, was that one can't "grab" the bite volume line unless it's actually associated with the bite!

In other words, you can't grab it in-between soundbites.

Working fine now.

Maybe not as "cool looking" as the client is used to, but I think this will work for those occasional dynamic corrections prior to drawing in final volume lines on the actual waveform.

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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by bayswater »

buzzsmith wrote:My issue yesterday, it appears, was that one can't "grab" the bite volume line unless it's actually associated with the bite!

In other words, you can't grab it in-between soundbites.
Yes, that threw me too. But when you think about it, having bite volume where there is no bite would be impossible and confusing. DP could not deal with a situation where two soundbites, each with volume information outside their boundaries, are moved closer together. You could end up two different volume levels at the same point on the time line, or volume info in one bite determining volume in another.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Dwetmaster »

To have wave size feedback, you hold the Return button while using your scroll wheel to change the value in the information window.
Works great. The only drawback is that it creates A LOT of undo steps...
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by frankf »

bayswater wrote:
buzzsmith wrote:My issue yesterday, it appears, was that one can't "grab" the bite volume line unless it's actually associated with the bite!

In other words, you can't grab it in-between soundbites.
Yes, that threw me too. But when you think about it, having bite volume where there is no bite would be impossible and confusing. DP could not deal with a situation where two soundbites, each with volume information outside their boundaries, are moved closer together. You could end up two different volume levels at the same point on the time line, or volume info in one bite determining volume in another.
You can Merge the 2 or more sound bites and then adjust the bite gain for the new SB


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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by bayswater »

frankf wrote:You can Merge the 2 or more sound bites and then adjust the bite gain for the new SBFrank Ferrucci
Certainly, but I assume the purpose of adjusting the bite volume is to fine tune it's level or envelop for all of its instances. Otherwise, wouldn't you just use volume automation?
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Shooshie »

Old habits die hard. I still use Trim plugins on nearly all audio tracks. When I get a track the way I want it, but find out it's too loud or soft, it's just so easy to apply a Trim plugin, not that it's all that hard to do it via automation. Trim is simple, powerful and fast, and you can automate it, too. Clip gain is also easy, but I tend to like control on the track level more than the soundbite level. However, if you have one soundbite that is just recorded lower than everything else (or higher), the clip gain (soundbite gain) makes it easy to match it with the rest, without having to draw automation.

There are plenty of stages of gain in DP. It allows for very effective and sensitive settings and automation, allowing precise control over every stage of gain from input to final output. I love it!

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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Morpheo »

bayswater wrote:It's not exactly the same in DP, but it's pretty simple but more powerful (I think -- I didn't use this a lot in PT).

There is a soundbite gain layer in the SE. It shows a white line representing the current gain level for a "clip". If you click somewhere in it, that creates a volume level point you can drag up and down. If you click at the beginning of the line, you can drag the whole line vertically, and change the gain but keep it constant for the duration of the clip. You can click in a few places to create several gain points creating a gain envelop, and then, lasso the whole envelop and move it up and down by grabbing the first of the points. You can use all the pencil and reshape tools to make it ramp, oscillate, change randomly ... And so on. I guess clicking on the start of the white line and moving it up and down is the equivalent of the PT pop up. To complete the equivalence, If you have the Cursor info strip showing at the top of the SE window, it will display the current gain level of the point being moved.
Pro Tools does exactly the same, DP's way of doing it is not more powerful, it's just different. Actually the cursor change is actually much more intuitive and effective in Pro Tools, imho. And I sometimes find the clip gain line in DP very hard to read/adjust depending on the track color/soundbite color/track size/etc, also depending on the point's location on the soundbite.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Phil O »

Well said, Shooshie. Don't forget that there are input and/or output gain controls on many plugins, all automatable (is that a word? :? ). I'll often leave my faders free of automation for easy tweaks to the mix and opt for automating the gain of one of the plugins on a track instead. This also makes for effective gain staging of plugins. There's also a difference between bite gain and bite volume. Using all of these together makes for very easy workflow once you get the hang of each method's strengths and weaknesses and when and where to use each.

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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by bayswater »

Phil O wrote:There's also a difference between bite gain and bite volume.
What's the practical difference?
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