Clip Gain like in ProTools?

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buzzsmith
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by buzzsmith »

Thanks for all of the very insightful and knowledgeable responses!

I use all of the techniques mentioned above except for the now newly discovered bite volume layer.

The true "test" will be when my studio-wise client comes back for some more vocal tweaking. I mean we're actually moving syllables!

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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Shooshie »

buzzsmith wrote:I mean we're actually moving syllables!
You probably already know all about it, but I just thought I'd toss it out: when doing precision editing where I'm inserting or moving notes or syllables that need to sound as if they were played that way, I use asymmetrical x-fades to help suppress the surrounding material that shouldn't be heard as it goes from the one to the other and back.

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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Phil O »

bayswater wrote:
Phil O wrote:There's also a difference between bite gain and bite volume.
What's the practical difference?
Bite gain is a fixed value for the soundbite. It is not a parameter that can be automated. I think it's best used when an overall gain change is required for the soundbite (i.e., it was recorded too soft or too hot). It's value can be viewed in Sound File Info. The same effect can be achieved with a trim plug, but bite gain is "attached" to a soundbite, so a track with four soundbites will have four bite gains.
Bite volume, on the other hand, is a layer in the SE which CAN be automated and displayed in a lane. I use this where I want to leave fader automation OFF but still have a volume automation.

BTW, after playing with this a bit, I noticed that the waveform in the SE does, in fact, visually respond to bite gain changes, but not bite volume changes. I was partially in error in my previous post.

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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by bayswater »

Phil O wrote:
bayswater wrote:
Phil O wrote:There's also a difference between bite gain and bite volume.
What's the practical difference?
Bite gain is a fixed value for the soundbite. It is not a parameter that can be automated. I think it's best used when an overall gain change is required for the soundbite (i.e., it was recorded too soft or too hot). It's value can be viewed in Sound File Info. The same effect can be achieved with a trim plug, but bite gain is "attached" to a soundbite, so a track with four soundbites will have four bite gains.
Bite volume, on the other hand, is a layer in the SE which CAN be automated and displayed in a lane. I use this where I want to leave fader automation OFF but still have a volume automation.


Philippe
Thanks. I understand that much. These are two tools that act on different objects, and each of which might be better used in different circumstances, but they do both change the playback level.

Like you, I thought the level changes reflected in bite gain were reflected in the display, and I remember seeing that in a project where the singer more or less whispered that last words during that fadeout. I cranked up the bite gain, and I'm sure I saw the level up at zero db in the SE display. Maybe that changed in an update.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by supersonic »

I have a shortcut assigned to Set Bite Gain and use it all the time, especially on vocals. The difference with PT is that PT shows the amount of gain applied while DP doesn't. But it is just as fast and the waveform does get updated. All my vocal tracks are edited this way before I think of automation or soundbite volume automation.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by kwiz »

supersonic wrote:The difference with PT is that PT shows the amount of gain applied while DP doesn't. But it is just as fast and the waveform does get updated. All my vocal tracks are edited this way before I think of automation or soundbite volume automation.
Actually, DP does show the gain amounts. It's in the cursor information section.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by stubbsonic »

This has been useful.

I like to use Bite Gain for things that where I don't want to worry about linking volume automation, and just know that I'm "committing it".

The Bite Volume layer is quite useful, as it appears that you can create a specific volume envelope that will travel with the bite if copied or dragged.

One lingering question is that of how bite gain or bite volume is handled during longer crossfades. As crossfades extend the soundbites play boundary to start/end pre/post the region boundaries, does the bite gain and/or volume also apply outside the boundary. I'm thinking it must, as I've not ever heard any anomalies, but I'm not sure I've really tested it.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by cowtothesky »

I have been looking for something similar to "time adjuster" stereo delay like in pro tools. I really liked that delay in order to create room and pan. I haven't warmed up to the dp stereo delay yet.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Jesse DeCarlo »

Like Supersonic, I use bite gain in DP all the time, and I have a hot key (Shift-Cmd-B) assigned to it. I don't know why there isn't a default hot key for it, because it's an important feature and is really cumbersome if you have to get to it through menus.

And as I think others have mentioned, changes in bite gain (unlike bite volume) in DP are reflected in the waveform, just like in Pro Tools.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by bayswater »

Jesse DeCarlo wrote:And as I think others have mentioned, changes in bite gain (unlike bite volume) in DP are reflected in the waveform
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Hattonkeys »

I can't see any changes in the waveform when I change the bite volume or gain in DP9. Does Digital Performer not show this? Seems like a big oversight, my free version of StudioOne 2 did it.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Kurt Cowling »

There's more than one way to change gain and only one changes the waveform. Sorry I'm not in front of DP. If you draw in bite automation (like track automation, but sticks to the soundbite) it won't show. But, select the soundbite with a single click in the sequence window. In the upper left of the sequence window some info will appear with start and end points for the soundbite. There's also a field that should show 0.0 gain (because you haven't changed it yet). Type there or drag with your mouse through that field and the visual of the soundbite will change. Hope that's all clear. Again, sorry I'm not in front of DP to explain it better.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by amplidood »

Image

It's visible in the Event section of the Information Bar (if you have that enabled). I turn off the Tempo part of that section so all I see is the Bite Gain at the end. It is not quite as convenient as the Pro Tools method, but I find myself changing it by accident all the time in Pro Tools because its right where I grab the region to do other things. Never happens in DP.

I have shortcuts set up in Pro Tools where I can turn the region name or clip gain indicators on and off very quickly. I wish we had the ability to hide Soundbite names in the SE. I really don't need to see all that word clutter all the time.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by Hattonkeys »

Kurt Cowling wrote:There's more than one way to change gain and only one changes the waveform. Sorry I'm not in front of DP. If you draw in bite automation (like track automation, but sticks to the soundbite) it won't show. But, select the soundbite with a single click in the sequence window. In the upper left of the sequence window some info will appear with start and end points for the soundbite. There's also a field that should show 0.0 gain (because you haven't changed it yet). Type there or drag with your mouse through that field and the visual of the soundbite will change. Hope that's all clear. Again, sorry I'm not in front of DP to explain it better.
Thank you, Kurt! I gave that a try but still no change in the size of the bite waveform in the sequence window. I see the number in the event information but the actual waveform does not change size for me no matter what number I put in. I'm not sure what I am doing wrong. I would like to be able to visually compare soundbites that were at different volumes and match them. Next time I will not change my recording levels mid-stream, but it still would be nice to know how to do make this happen. I know I can just draw in volume automation but I would much prefer to "see" it on the actual waveform.
Thank you again for your response.
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Re: Clip Gain like in ProTools?

Post by amplidood »

If you change the Bite Gain in the Event Info bar, the waveform should indeed reflect the change. Not sure what's happening there. I'm doing in right now in my session and the waveform grows and shrinks accordingly.
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