Future of M5?

Discussion of Digital Performer use, optimization, tips and techniques on MacOS.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15132
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Future of M5?

Post by mikehalloran »

Speculation on the level of scientific theory...
is still speculation.

While I think that you are probably right, it won't be till NAMM that anyone can be more certain. In light of recent events, the lack of an announcement will be nearly as significant any that is made.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Michael Canavan
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: seattle

Re: Future of M5?

Post by Michael Canavan »

mikehalloran wrote:
Speculation on the level of scientific theory...
is still speculation.

While I think that you are probably right, it won't be till NAMM that anyone can be more certain. In light of recent events, the lack of an announcement will be nearly as significant any that is made.
My guess is no announcement. UVI are not denying the dissolution of their contracts with MOTU in regards to Falcon, and are even announced the crossgrade in forum threads on Gearslutz and KVR. That says everything, along with MOTU's complete silence.

The silence is deafening. Like I mentioned though, it's always possible that MOTU announce DPX and M54 embedded, but my guess is we have another year before DPX. I would like to be wrong about that! :)
M2 Studio Ultra, RME Babyface FS, Slate Raven Mti2, NI SL88 MKII, Linnstrument, MPC Live II, Launchpad MK3. Hundreds of plug ins.
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Future of M5?

Post by Shooshie »

Michael makes a good point, guys. Speculation, yes, but we deal in lots of speculation every day that we normally accept. Quantum Theory is heavily tested speculation, yet nobody can say just what's going on there. All we know is that it works as predicted.

Things generally work the way Michael predicted in the music business. Speculation is how we get ready for change, and try not to be trapped and hindered by it. I know nothing about this particular company, but I've always wondered whether MOTU has any control or say whatsoever in Mach Five. It just seems like someone else puts that out, and MOTU sells it. Unisyn also was a weird one. It just didn't have MOTU's fingerprints on the code. Written to spec. Nothing there to help out the user. Speculations turned to fact over time as it was ditched.

Anyway, Mach Five may or may not be going away, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared for the next thing. It looks like it's been copied, or else it's been reassigned. Don't shoot the messenger. Michael is just trying to show us what he has seen.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Future of M5?

Post by mhschmieder »

I certainly don't regret getting Falcon almost for free, with all the discounts, cross-grades, and incentives piled together. I no longer care whether M5 continues, as a result, even though there are a couple of minor things that I think make for better and more intuitive workflow in M5.

I use Falcon a LOT these days, as most of the better new libraries (IMO) have been for UVI vs. Kontakt. I am finding Falcon solid as a rock, and extremely fast to load. I also think the "brand" will be pushed better by the main vendor, in terms of the perception being that it's a platform that is getting serious development attention, than if MOTU as a reseller/repackager remained the primary "caretaker". And let's face it, Kontakt has gotten rather stagnant.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
bayswater
Posts: 11923
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:06 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver

Re: Future of M5?

Post by bayswater »

dix wrote:Wait. I can't find anywhere that M5 is over. Is this just peanut gallery guess work, or is there info out there that provoked this speculation?
Sure there is an element of speculation. There's also a bit of writing on the wall.

Consider this: Day one, MOTU is selling M5 in partnership with UVI who supplies the sound libraries, and presumably a lot of the VI coding. UVI sells sounds to others and provides free version player that looks a lot like M5 stripped down. Day two: UVI sells some libraries that play in their free player but not in M5. Day three: UVI launches an advanced version of M5 under a different brand, and offers a discount crossgrade price to MOTU's M5 customers. MOTU does not participate in any announcements or promotions.

Does that raise any doubt at all about the future of MOTU's M5? Knowing this, would you buy a new M5 licence? Or might you consider Falcon instead?
Last edited by bayswater on Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
User avatar
toodamnhip
Posts: 3839
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Future of M5?

Post by toodamnhip »

Wow,
Falcon looks a lot like Mach 5.
After I bought Mach 5, I was fairly astounded at certain bugs and the fact that using Mach 5 created stuck notes in other VIs when used inside DP. Amazed that MOTU’s own product made problems with it’s own DAW. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out Falcon worked better inside of DP than Mach 5. That would be ironic indeed.

The fact that they look so similar in design is strange.
I hardly use Mach 5 so will have to admit that that Mach 5 could be a great product that I am under-utilizing. But early Mach 5 bugs inside DP turned me off long ago and thus, I use it fairly rarely.
Anyone want to explain why Falcon crossbreed is a worthwhile investment?

Is Falcon the future and Mach 5 a dead end road? IS this all silly rumor? Who knows.
Mac Pro (Late 2013
2.7 GHz 12-Core Intel Xeon E5
64 GB 1866 MHz DDR3
Mojave
DP 10.13
MOTU 8pre, MTP AV, 828 mkII
Tons of VIS and plug ins. SSD hard drives etc
User avatar
Michael Canavan
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: seattle

Re: Future of M5?

Post by Michael Canavan »

toodamnhip wrote:Wow,
Falcon looks a lot like Mach 5.
After I bought Mach 5, I was fairly astounded at certain bugs and the fact that using Mach 5 created stuck notes in other VIs when used inside DP. Amazed that MOTU’s own product made problems with it’s own DAW. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out Falcon worked better inside of DP than Mach 5. That would be ironic indeed.

The fact that they look so similar in design is strange.
I hardly use Mach 5 so will have to admit that that Mach 5 could be a great product that I am under-utilizing. But early Mach 5 bugs inside DP turned me off long ago and thus, I use it fairly rarely.
Anyone want to explain why Falcon crossbreed is a worthwhile investment?

Is Falcon the future and Mach 5 a dead end road? IS this all silly rumor? Who knows.
As well documented in this thread among others, I don't think it's silly rumor at all. UVI added to the FX and granular engines in Mach5, changed the layout a bit and rebranded it Falcon. The only missing part of M53 is the sampler conversions, Falcon reads MF3 and UVI libraries only, along with SFZ files and the regular audio files. Of course it loads all UVI libraries just great and includes them in Kontakt like banks.I would say it's at least as stable for me as MachFive 3, but I never had your issue with M53. There is a demo of course.

I was always more interested in M53 as a sample mangler or granular synth than as a replacement for Kontakt so the direction Falcon is going in suites me. It would take IMO serious bugs etc. in Kontakt to usurp Kontakt at this point as the third party sample library king.
M2 Studio Ultra, RME Babyface FS, Slate Raven Mti2, NI SL88 MKII, Linnstrument, MPC Live II, Launchpad MK3. Hundreds of plug ins.
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Future of M5?

Post by mhschmieder »

My recollection is that MOTU coded and/or second-sourced the sample format conversion block independently of UVI, so that would explain its absence from Falcon.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
Post Reply