Future of M5?

[SMS]

OK, I'm seeing references to MachFive being a lame duck- can one of you point me to a thread explaining this?

Thanks

Spence

[Tritonemusic]

I'd start by looking in the Machfive forum. Look at threads with "Falcon" in the title.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I don't know how much of that is true, but MachFive is still quite capable and I don't see that much in Falcon that improves on that, at least from my perspective. Just another ass in the crowd, imo.

[dix]

I don't know how much of that is true, but MachFive is still quite capable and I don't see that much in Falcon that improves on that, at least from my perspective. Just another ass in the crowd, imo.

I remember that you use the granular engine in M5 MLC. Falcon seems to have improved on that extensively. That's the main thing that interests me. Sure wish there was a demo available. ...this guy did a little demo of the new granular stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hreAo5rwR2Q

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I played with the granular features, but have yet to use it in a production. Still waiting for a 1950's b-movie Sci-Fi scoring gig... LOL

[cuttime]

Sure wish there was a demo available. ...this guy did a little demo of the new granular stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hreAo5rwR2Q

Looks a lot like the granular engine in the $30 Alchemy/MainStage package:

[mikehalloran]

Besides the new/improved granular synth, Falcon has the ability to open all UVI libraries. This includes the latest that won't open in M5. These libraries also open in the free UVI player.

M5 will open/import many file types not supported by Falcon.

There is a $170 Falcon cross-grade available to M53 owners till February 1. Till yesterday, the price had dropped to $130. I passed.

Looks a lot like the granular engine in the $30 Alchemy/MainStage package:

Look for MainStage 3 in the App Store – $29.99. Free upgrade if you've already purchase. Alchemy is also included with the latest build of Logic Pro X @ $199.99.

I played with the granular features, but have yet to use it in a production. Still waiting for a Sci-Fi scoring gig... LOL

My situation also.

[Henry Robinett]

I just bought Falcon without the cross grade. I don't own Mach5 or anything. So unfortunately I don't have a UVI library other than what came with Falcon. But for the same price at JRR Music they threw in Digital Synsations, which is kind of what I was looking for. Those old D-50 sounds.


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[bayswater]

Watching this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5zqgQoSQcs, it seems to me MOTU doesn't have much time to announce something before the moment is lost. The limited availability of M5 compatible libraries, and the new UVI libraries that don't work in M5, really emphasizes the question. Falcon is pretty amazing and inexpensive, about the price of any expected M5 upgrade, so it's difficult to see what's lost in going with Falcon over M5.

[Michael Canavan]

Watching this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5zqgQoSQcs, it seems to me MOTU doesn't have much time to announce something before the moment is lost. The limited availability of M5 compatible libraries, and the new UVI libraries that don't work in M5, really emphasizes the question. Falcon is pretty amazing and inexpensive, about the price of any expected M5 upgrade, so it's difficult to see what's lost in going with Falcon over M5.

That was my feeling as well, but I wouldn't say over, it's quite obvious that M53 isn't going to exist in it's current form, I think the most you can hope for is some agreement with UVI on integrating it into DPX like MX4 was in DP9.

Also, Alchemy is a great synth, but it's granular engine isn't comparable to what IRCAM in Falcon does, plus using Mainstage requires IAC, soundflower etc. as it does not load as an AU.

[dix]

Wait. I can't find anywhere that M5 is over. Is this just peanut gallery guess work, or is there info out there that provoked this speculation?

Falcon is pretty amazing and inexpensive, about the price of any expected M5 upgrade, so it's difficult to see what's lost in going with Falcon over M5.

Well, time for one thing could be lost. Falcon looks vast. Though it looks similar to M5 it's not clear from the website if all my M5 knowledge will be applicable. ...how 'bout it new Falcon users. Is it easy to make the transition?

[Michael Canavan]

Wait. I can't find anywhere that M5 is over. Is this just peanut gallery guess work, or is there info out there that provoked this speculation?

Falcon is pretty amazing and inexpensive, about the price of any expected M5 upgrade, so it's difficult to see what's lost in going with Falcon over M5.

Well, time for one thing could be lost. Falcon looks vast. Though it looks similar to M5 it's not clear from the website if all my M5 knowledge will be applicable. ...how 'bout it new Falcon users. Is it easy to make the transition?

The transition is IMO somewhere in the middle, some things are exactly the same, navigation etc. some things are slightly more complex, but also make more sense in the long run.

As far as guess work on M53 being on it's last legs, if I could name one instance where a partnership between two companies in the software music industry included the developer doing very obviously 90-100% of the code releasing a product that does everything the original product did, plus adds new features.. where that didn't mean the partnership was over I would. Like I said before, the only logical possibility is that UVI and MOTU might be embedding M54 into DPX directly, no VST or AU version. Any other possibility besides that or M53 being the last thing UVI and MOTU do together makes absolutely no sense on a business level. It's obvious that UVI own the entire code base for M53, as Falcon reads and reproduces every patch made in M53 with zero issues, including all pitch/time, FX, everything.
Just to put a nail in the coffin on this, regardless of MOTUs secrecy I think they would have announced something after the introduction of Falcon if the partnership with UVI is still active, especially with UVI offering a cross grade. Everything points the dissolving of the business relation, and UVI taking over the M53 code in Falcon. I would bet money I'm right on all this, it's IMO all blatantly obvious. I certainly wouldn't wait around for MOTU, great company, but their way of going about discontinuing a product seems to be to sell it for a few more years, then slowly let it die.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

[quote="dix"] Is this just peanut gallery guess work... [quote]

Nailed it! Nobody knows except the powers that be. All else is speculation.

[mikehalloran]

Is this just peanut gallery guess work...

Nailed it! Nobody knows except the powers that be. All else is speculation.

Yep. NAMM is three weeks away. Either there will be an announcement from someone on this or there won't.

The $170 cross-grade to Falcon for M53 users is good till Feb. 1, eight days after NAMM closes.

[Michael Canavan]

Is this just peanut gallery guess work...

Nailed it! Nobody knows except the powers that be. All else is speculation.

Speculation on the level of scientific theory, as it relates to the regular use of the word theory.

If M54 comes out it would literally break all normal rules of business partnerships, code ownership, etc.

I don't know why people are so convinced that it's possible really? Falcon is very obviously based entirely on M53 code, that obviously UVI own. Why would they allow another company to continue to lease code for essentially the same product? Why would any company choose to compete with their business partner? IMO it's plainly obvious that that partnership is over. With that in mind, how would MOTU legally release Machfive 4? The only possibility is if MOTU and UVI decided to embed future versions of MachFive. There literally aren't any other possibilities that make any sense business wise. This IMO isn't speculation, it's basic math.