USB dilemma

[SMS]

I've just had an irritating morning trying to troubleshoot USB issues. I came to the studio, plugged in my MacBook Pro like I do every day, and the external kybd and mouse are unrecognized. Further checking reveals only my USB BU drive is showing up on the USB bus. Each periferal, when plugged directly to the mac, is recognized, so bad hub, right? OK, so I pull out an older hub, plug it in, same thing, though this one used to work fine. Went to the store, bought a generic hub for testing, same thing. Clearly something wrong with the Mac, right? Call AppleCare, quick response, but they won't help me troubleshoot unless I'm using an Apple hub- annoying, but I get it. Wait, though, apple doesn't make hubs. AC rep says buy a hub from an apple store and they'll help me troubleshoot. OK, what do they carry, how many ports? Only a Belkin 4-port. Inadequate for my needs, but to troubleshoot, I drive to Apple store, buy Belkin 4-port hub. Test, everything (well the 4 I can plug in at once) is recognized, and if I plug the keyboard into the second USB port on the mac, and plug the mouse receiver and iLok into the keyboard ports, i have the minimum I need to run the studio, but I used to be able (with my 7 port hub) to have it all plugged in and running neatly off one mac port, so if a client brings in a USB stick or drive, easy peasy, and I could plug in my phone to charge/sync when needed. I asked the AC rep if apple recommends a hub with more than 4 ports. No. So, then, should I daisy-chain multiple 4 port hubs? No- not supported. Then how, I ask innocently, can one connect more than 4 USB peripherals in an apple supported manner? Well, no solution for that.

Reason I'm sharing all this is to ask how you all recommend connecting more than 4 USB devices? I see a few 7 porters on Amazon... I'd also like to be able to charge my iPhone and iPad through the hub.

All advice appreciated-

Here's a list of my USB devices that I'd like to have run off one MacBook port:

MIDI Express XT
Lexicon MX200
Kurz PC3K8
Apple Extended Kybd (has 2 ports also)
Logitech mouse receiver
iLok
BU drive
iPhone
iPad
a spare port for visiting kybds, drives

(I run my 828MKIII via FireWire)

[stubbsonic]

I got that elektron overhub, and it works great. However, there was one major hassle which was that it didn't come with an F'''n power supply. Had to find one with the right specs on eBay.

However, it does sound like you have something else going on with your mac and your USB bus. Perhaps some kind of resets might be in order?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Are you using the Logitech driver? I'm wondering if there's a driver misbehaving and the Logitech drivers are the worst. IMO.

I'd start up the Mac in safe boot (or whatever that's called- single user?) by holding down the shift key at boot up. I use Steermouse but there are others. Also resetting PRAM and repair permissions should have been done already in the most basic troubleshooting.

I have a variety of multiport USB devices. Kingwin are pretty bullet proof.

[SMS]

Thanks for the replies- just makes me wonder, with everything having USB MIDI now, how folks connect all the USB.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Powered ports.

[SMS]

Powered ports.

Well, yeah- how do you get more than 7?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I don't. I use 9 and 7 port hubs. That's enough for me. Printers are all via Ethernet.

[mikehalloran]

I'd start up the Mac in safe boot … by holding down the shift key at boot up. … Also resetting PRAM and repair permissions should have been done already in the most basic troubleshooting.

Do these first.

You don't say which MBP you have. Does it have USB 2 or 3?

A common misunderstanding is that USB 3 is backwards compatible with USB 2. It is not but rather a separate protocol. 2012 Macs and later combine both into the same plug — a good USB 3 cable has enough wires to carry both 2 and 3 but some cables do not support 2. USB 2 cables cannot carry USB 3. If you have a 2011 or earlier, then none of this matters as you are on USB 2.

Only one of your USB ports supplies power. Many newer USB powered hubs have separate ports for USB 2 and 3. Others have the combined protocols in each hub.

Apple keyboards support USB 1.1 only (true!). OK for plugging in flash drives, I suppose, but not too much else — not fast and won't charge your iPhone.

Here are some ratings on USB hubs.
http://lifehacker.com/five-best-usb-hubs-1414094277

Printers are all via Ethernet

Oh yes.

Wireless printing and scanning got very good with OS 10.8.2 and kind of sucked before.

[Shooshie]

You can get powered USB hubs with lots of ports. Not a problem. Plus, my Mac has quite a few USB ports itself. Just stick with powered ports from known makers and you'll be fine. (Belkin, for instance)

When people tell you not to use more than 4 USB ports, they're just being conservative. Safe. If you ask someone point-blank if they'll give you permission to do something technical, they usually won't, because they do not think they have the authority to do so, or they've heard Tech Mythology that forbids it. Tech Mythology is like Urban Mythology. Wives' Tales for Techies.

So, by the authority of my own imagination, I hereby proclaim that you may use 7 port USB powered hubs. Or 8 ports (also powered). But not 9 ports. Portions of the universe will come unraveled if you use a 9 port powered USB hub. If your computer balks, just tell it that I said it was ok. That should do the trick.

However, it's not unheard of for a USB bus to quit working on a Mac. Especially if you've had lightning strikes nearby while it's in use. That's a motherboard swap, unless you can put a USB card in there. Happened here once about 12 years ago. Also blew out the ethernet card.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Printers are all via Ethernet

Oh yes.

Wireless printing and scanning got very good with OS 10.8.2 and kind of sucked before.

I started using wireless printing and scanning about 10 years ago with an HP Photosmart, and that's all I've used since. I'll never go back to a connected printer. Everyone in the house, iOS included, uses it without problems. Setup is a little slow, as it IS made by HP, who still seems rooted in 1995 when it comes to interfaces, but once you type in the wireless network and password, it works like a charm.

I do have a very expensive scanner that has to be plugged in, but I almost never use it, so it stays in the box until I need it. But for daily scanning and printing, I use the HP Photosmart line, wireless. It's fast, reliable, and the quality is very, very good. But anything that prints well and is wireless would be fine with me.

Shooshie

[SMS]

You don't say which MBP you have. Does it have USB 2 or 3?

A common misunderstanding is that USB 3 is backwards compatible with USB 2. It is not but rather a separate protocol. 2012 Macs and later combine both into the same plug — a good USB 3 cable has enough wires to carry both 2 and 3 but some cables do not support 2. USB 2 cables cannot carry USB 3. If you have a 2011 or earlier, then none of this matters as you are on USB 2.

Only one of your USB ports supplies power. Many newer USB powered hubs have separate ports for USB 2 and 3. Others have the combined protocols in each hub.

Apple keyboards support USB 1.1 only (true!). OK for plugging in flash drives, I suppose, but not too much else — not fast and won't charge your iPhone.

Thanks this is helpful-

Mine is a mid 2012 MacBook Pro with USB 3- two ports. Last model before no optical drive and Retina, which I didn't want.

I did notice that when everything's working the System Profiler shows two "Virtual" hubs- USB 2 and USB 3. After all this hair pulling, I un-loomed all the wiring to my 'bad' 7- port hub, pulled it, then for kicks tested it again- all OK. I'm deducing that there was an issue with the power supply or its cabling, and thus only one device would run with the hub unpowered. Why that would be a bus powered drive is a puzzle.

I still hate that I can't find a hub that will charge my iPad 2 without a computer connected- that seems just stupid.

Seems sorted for now, but I think I'll still get a more-ported hub.

Thanks

Spence

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Kingwin hubs come with smart ports that charge when the computer is off. I got one at Frys and one direct from Kingwin. They're inexpensive as well.

[stubbsonic]

I had read that something called "Multi TT" would mean that a hub could support multiple data transfer rates. The claim was that if you had a slow device on the hub, that would limit the speed of other devices on the hub. Not sure if that's correct, that just seemed to be what they were implying.

I was also wondering if you looked at the amperage rating on the power supply for the hub if that would tell you how much more power was available for devices. In my case, one hub has a 2.5 A current rating, and the newer one has a 3 A rating. I'm not sure if that is what was making the difference, but I can now connect all 7 devices with no issues.

I've also had wonky behavior from my USB ports. Specifically, it will tell me a device was removed without ejecting it-- but it wasn't even touched. No idea about that one.

[mikehalloran]

An iPad Air 2 pulls 12W. My first gen iPad charger is rated 10W and takes longer to charge my Air 2 if I use the wrong one.

The spec for USB 2 is 5V @ 500mA — that's 1/2 Amp. USB 3 ups the spec to 900mA. This is for USB Charging downstream (powered hub). Not all USB ports support downstream charging. Older MACBooks with multiple USB ports supported downstream charging on only one of the ports. Likewise, passive USB hubs and Apple keyboards are non-powered hubs.

USB chargers for iPhones are rated at 1.5-3A while iPad chargers are rated 2.5-3A.

Some of the Anker hubs have data ports with enough juice for charging iOS devices.

I did notice that when everything's working the System Profiler shows two "Virtual" hubs- USB 2 and USB 3...

Yes, hopefully, my explanation made sense as to why.

[David Polich]

I see that your initial post lists a MIDI Express XT
as one of your USB devices. If it is, then
connect your Kurzweil via MIDI cables to the MIDI
Express. This will eliminate at least one USB
device, as you are not connecting the Kurz via
USB anymore. Do the same for other hardware
keyboards you want to connect..use MIDI to
connect them to the MIDI Express XT.

You can also disconnect your iPhone and iPad
from your laptop. I assume you are connecting
them to charge them, as I cannot think of another
reason you'd need to connect them. Plug them in
to some other AC outlet. This eliminates two
more USB devices.

An iLok can be connected to the USB ports
on your Apple keyboard. If you have two
iLoks, transfer all your licenses to just one
of them. That will eliminate yet another USB
device.

The goal is to reduce the number of USB
devices connected to your laptop.