The hardest instrument to mix...

[bayswater]

Hey... you heard about it at MOTUNation!

Shooshie

Great stuff, thanks for writing this out.

I had a look at Waves and noticed the C4 is there at $89 and part of Gold at $199.

[Shooshie]

I wanted to post an example of this piano expansion technique, and I'm sure I have many to choose from, but the trouble is that without the actual settings of the C4 in the mix for me to look at, going through the archives is futile. I think most of those settings are long since erased by upgrades to Waves, DP, and the Mac OS. (most of the big piano/ensemble recordings I did were in OS 7, 8, and 9, DP 2.73, and who knows what version of Waves) So, it's hard for me to say for sure which of my recordings use the technique and which do not. However I do remember one that definitely uses it. It's the one I was mixing when I figured it out.

Chicago: Hard to Say I'm Sorry. Five Piano arrangement by Ariel and Shooshie with a tiny bit of help from David Foster, who loved the arrangement and wrote the original song.

This is a piano ensemble recording. There are 5 pianos. One is the solo piano; the rest are analogous to an orchestra. I wanted the solo to sparkle like Peter Cetera's vocals. Instead, I was mostly hearing attacks that hammered like little pin points. My friend Ariel, a Soviet Moldavian by birth, was also disappointed that we couldn't get that melodic flow from the solo piano, even though we knew it was there. (Just solo the track, and we'd hear that beautiful 7-foot Yamaha singing like we wanted)

So, I spent an evening playing with C4 techniques, looking for a way to slow down the decay after each attack. I think you'll agree that in this final version from the album the solo piano is singing very mellifluously. I went back and remixed most of the album with this new technique, but I can't remember for sure which songs I did or didn't remix.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

One more thing: in my post about using this expander technique, I mistakenly said to set the threshold below the average attack. That's wrong. You have to set it above the average attack. (bear in mind it's been many years since I used this regularly, and I was writing entirely from memory, which isn't so great these days)

In fact, you have to find the sweet spot where no attacks are too affected. You don't want to pin the response to the maximum range. It's got to flow quickly with the attack and decay curves. Its purpose is to augment the decay, not to overpower it.

So, I've edited the original post. If you were going to try it, be sure to use the post-edit instructions! Sorry for the memory lapse.

Also, I added a picture of the C6 in action as a companding 4-band processor.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Fernando, were you able to try this method on your celeste track? It just might help make it less difficult to mix.

Shooshie

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Hope you're well Shooshie. I was worried about you after the tornado stuff in Dallas yesterday.

[Shooshie]

Hope you're well Shooshie. I was worried about you after the tornado stuff in Dallas yesterday.

Thanks; I'm taking the response to this to a new thread in the off-topic forum.
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 73#p519573

Shooshie

[daniel.sneed]

As Shooshie pointed, piano sound is much about keeping dynamic under control, and fit with the musical project.

That's just where I do appreciate the *Dynamic* control in Pianoteq.
I generally get exactly where I want in seconds.

[Shooshie]

As Shooshie pointed, piano sound is much about keeping dynamic under control, and fit with the musical project.

That's just where I do appreciate the *Dynamic* control in Pianoteq.
I generally get exactly where I want in seconds.

Not what I said, actually. I said the key is the ability to control the SLOPE of the DECAY. That's not exactly the same thing as the dynamics. I described how to do that several posts back.

I just want to be clear on what I was talking about. It was a breakthrough for me when I learned to do it, and it might be a breakthrough for others if they try it, but it's essential to understand that it's not merely dynamic control, but a whole rejiggering of how each note decays.

I'm sure PianoTeq is great, but I was recording real grand pianos when I developed this technique. This is a mixing technique that theoretically should work on any percussive/melodic instrument where sharp attack and steep decay ruins the melodic sustain when accompanying instruments begin to get loud. (piano, guitar, celeste, marimba, etc.)

But don't take my word. Try it.

Shoosh

[daniel.sneed]

Thanks, Shooshie.
I may experiment soon with some *pingy* acoustic metal percussions.