I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

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cleamon
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I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by cleamon »

If I setup a loop, say 8 bars, turn on memory cycle and overdub, then arm an AUDIO track and hit record, every pass through that 8 bars results in a separate track (aka take). I know it's all in one .wav file, but it appears and behaves like separate tracks. I can pick and choose, or use the comp tool to slice and dice the takes to create a "master" take. Fine, I like that.

However, if I do this very same thing with a MIDI track, I end up with one track (take) containing every note played in every "take". What a mess! The only way I can see to get similar results is to stop in between takes, and add a "new take", start recording again. AND EVEN THEN, when I want to see the results there is no "show all takes", I can only show one at a time. And of course the comp tool isn't going to work either.

Ok, that's just the way it is. But why MOTU? Why not treat it just like audio?

Anyone got any suggestions on comp'ing with MIDI tracks. It really disrupts the flow having to stop and manually create a new take. I'd like to jam over a section repeatedly, then choose the best take later on. JUST like I do with audio.

thanks
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stubbsonic
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by stubbsonic »

This won't solve your particular request, but it is just another way to work.

On the occasions when I want to improvise a bunch of times and take the best take, I usually just create a long sequence and record the MIDI in a long, linear fashion. Then I can cut together bits and pieces that I like from one track. That is much easier for me.
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cleamon
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by cleamon »

stubbsonic wrote:This won't solve your particular request, but it is just another way to work.

On the occasions when I want to improvise a bunch of times and take the best take, I usually just create a long sequence and record the MIDI in a long, linear fashion. Then I can cut together bits and pieces that I like from one track. That is much easier for me.
Yeah, that's the way I having to do it now. What I'd like is, for instance, to jam over the chorus section. So I'd have the backing tracks looping over the chorus and I'd just try different ideas (like I would do with audio). I suppose I could insert a region loop in all the backing tracks (rather than using memory cycle) and record one long MIDI track. Then hunt and peck, cut and paste, etc. Another option I guess would be to sync up with Logic. Play the DP backing tracks with memory cycle, and record the MIDI in Logic. Logic handles MIDI takes more like DP's audio takes. But I despise using Logic. <sigh>
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by dewdman42 »

MIDI comping has been a highly requested feature for a long time. Beats me why MOTU keeps overlooking it.
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by mhschmieder »

Out of curiosity, which other DAW's support this?

I've been taking the linear approach myself, or two parallel MIDI tracks that I quickly click on or off to disengage while I "virtually comp".
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cleamon
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by cleamon »

mhschmieder wrote:Out of curiosity, which other DAW's support this?

I've been taking the linear approach myself, or two parallel MIDI tracks that I quickly click on or off to disengage while I "virtually comp".
None, that I know of, handle comp'ing as eloquently as DP does with audio. (and not to turn this into a DAW v DAW debate) Logic at least lets me record multiple MIDI takes, non-stop, over the same time region (all while listening to the backing tracks). All the takes are placed under a "folder" track, from which I can slice and dice. ALL in the time context of where it will ultimately live. I don't want to go there however, so I'm looking for a better solution in DP.
cleamon wrote: But I despise using Logic. <sigh>
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by dewdman42 »

I think what people want more then the comp tool is a way to cycle through a section and have each pass record MIDI to a new track or take. I think the mindset motu is stuck on is that they think people want to loop record and have each pass add more notes to the same track as the last pass, incrementally increasing the polyphony with each pass. That can also be useful sometimes but I personally would rather send each pass to a new track or take and then merge them or comp them as I wish later.

Seems like someone had a workaround once where they setup a key command assigned to a MIDI key to add a new track while in loop record mode. Can't remember now. But a real MIDI take tool would be much better and being able to merge or comp the takes as needed to build the final output MIDI after the fact would be supremely useful. A lot of people have gotten used to working in a long linear fashion or whatever, but takes and comping would be so much better and easier. They did it for audio, why not MIDI? This is the kind of improvement I was hoping to see in DP9 and was left disappointed
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cleamon
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by cleamon »

dewdman42 wrote:I think what people want more then the comp tool is a way to cycle through a section and have each pass record MIDI to a new track or take. I think the mindset motu is stuck on is that they think people want to loop record and have each pass add more notes to the same track as the last pass, incrementally increasing the polyphony with each pass. That can also be useful sometimes but I personally would rather send each pass to a new track or take and then merge them or comp them as I wish later.

Seems like someone had a workaround once where they setup a key command assigned to a MIDI key to add a new track while in loop record mode. Can't remember now. But a real MIDI take tool would be much better and being able to merge or comp the takes as needed to build the final output MIDI after the fact would be supremely useful. A lot of people have gotten used to working in a long linear fashion or whatever, but takes and comping would be so much better and easier. They did it for audio, why not MIDI? This is the kind of improvement I was hoping to see in DP9 and was left disappointed
Exactly. I've be very satisfied to just record continuous takes. Comp'ing would be icing on the cake.
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cleamon
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by cleamon »

mhschmieder wrote:Out of curiosity, which other DAW's support this?

I've been taking the linear approach myself, or two parallel MIDI tracks that I quickly click on or off to disengage while I "virtually comp".
In case there's any doubt. Again, there's no comp'ing tool, but cycle record is a HUGE advantage over the linear approach -- during both recording and editing later on.


Image


"create take folders" is basically the same behavior as DP's audio takes.
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by nk_e »

Studio One has MIDI comping.

Cubase does also. It also has this facility called 'Track Versions' that's a bit different from 'Track Lanes' and facilitates the process. I find them extremely useful. A description is here.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec14/a ... e-1214.htm

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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by buhardilla »

I suggest you use takes, then select the option "turn takes into tracks" and your takes will be available in separate tracks where you can do a very acceptable work similar to comping in the sequence window. You can do a MIDI-cycle-recording like cubase/logic if you set a pair of easy access key commands (ie. new take -F13), select mode cycle on, and use a punch in/out range recording within the memory selection..... and yes, I also agree that a comping MIDI feature would be very welcome
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cleamon
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Re: I need help comp'ing MIDI tracks

Post by cleamon »

buhardilla wrote:I suggest you use takes, then select the option "turn takes into tracks" and your takes will be available in separate tracks where you can do a very acceptable work similar to comping in the sequence window. You can do a MIDI-cycle-recording like cubase/logic if you set a pair of easy access key commands (ie. new take -F13), select mode cycle on, and use a punch in/out range recording within the memory selection..... and yes, I also agree that a comping MIDI feature would be very welcome
Thanks for the suggestion, but what I'm looking for is a non-stop process, just like DP does with audio (and other DAWs do with MIDI as well). I know I can use takes, but it requires me to stop playing and create/select the next take, then start recording again. I DON'T have to do that with audio.
The easiest way I've found so far is to insert region loops in the backing tracks, then record one long MIDI jam track, then select/copy/paste. It ain't pretty but it works. This would be easier also, if DP supported MIDI regions (aka soundbites) like it does with audio (i.e. one recording = one selectable region/soundbite). Then I could use the scissor tool to snip out pieces and drag them around (by time or track) The track overview window kind of / sort of does this, but it's rough.
I just don't understand why DP doesn't handle MIDI just like it does audio. Most daws do, but I have no intention of switching -- I'm a die hard DP user.
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