How 'Bout Upright VIs?

[HCMarkus]

MHSchmeider, I'm hoping for some insight from you and others. I would love to find a well-tuned, intimate upright that won't cost me an arm and a leg; I need both arms and legs to play piano properly.

I am NOT looking for an out of tune horror like this: http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website ... ht_pro.php

[kgdrum]

Hi HC,I don't have this but I'm tempted & it sounds nice to me.....

https://cinesamples.com/product/abbey-r ... ght-pianos

[stubbsonic]

Just finished a session using the Pianoteq's upright. The client had a choice between a very nice grand or this more "vintage" upright sound. We both preferred it as it had more character. Though not as much character as the above linked piano.

[mikehalloran]

Ivory II Uprights I includes a tack piano as one of its four.

http://www.ilio.com/products/synthogy-i ... s/uprights

If you buy now, you can get the Italian or American D at no additional charge.

http://synthogy.com/index.php/news/item ... e-holidays

UVI has the Seiler Upright as part of their 5 Grands collection. I don't see it available separately.

http://www.uvi.net/en/pianos-keyboards/ ... ction.html

Here's a list of freebies, most in Kontact, many in SFZ.

http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2010/07 ... oy-pianos/

[HCMarkus]

Mrs. Mills doesn't quite do it for me, but I like both the Pianotech and Ivory uprights. Unless something a little less expensive comes along, I may just have to pony up the big bucks; you need to add a $59 upright to Pianotech… can't get it with the upright as one of your basic model choices. Regardless, Ivory is still more expensive than the basic Pianotech.

Any other ideas folks?

[HCMarkus]

Though not as much character as the above linked piano.

[mikehalloran]

My Piano from fluffyAudio sounds useful.

http://fluffyaudio.com/shop/mypiano/

This is another freebie in GigaStudio or SF2. It sounds like a lot of living room and church uprights to me — except in tune. I don't know if it's in that earlier list or not. I'm downloading this one in case I ever need something like this — sounds better than the Knabe spinet in the living room.

http://www.soundbrewer.com/downloads.php?mode=display

[HCMarkus]

My Piano from fluffyAudio sounds useful.

http://fluffyaudio.com/shop/mypiano/

Sure does. May be just the ticket. Thanks!

[musicman691]

Hi HC,I don't have this but I'm tempted & it sounds nice to me.....

https://cinesamples.com/product/abbey-r ... ght-pianos

Interesting - those two pianos without having to buy or use Reason; they're part of the Abbey Roads keyboard Refill for Reason. Had it for years since it came out and it also has a Hammond and some Mellotron sounds as well.

[mhschmieder]

Well, I became a lot more familiar with the variety of uprights (much more variant than grands) while on a beta team that I can't identify due to non-disclosure, which dovetailed with my jazz combo bandleader buying an upright grand for pennies and my own search at a local repair and sales shop that had over 100 from well more than a century of inventory.

I'm waiting on my Martin acoustic guitar auction to end in a few minutes and then likely have to rush it down to FedEx, so will just write the "short version" for now.

Most people are probably aware that the majority of uprights do not support full pedaling; some don't even have pedals at all! It is quite rare to have three pedals on an upright; usually these ONLY occur on Upright Grands, which are like slightly smaller Baby Grands that have been flipped 90 degrees (yet still have to make other compromises for mechanical reasons).

A lot of uprights -- and not just spinets (which aren't even always 88 keys BTW) -- only have two strings per note, throughout the entire range. String length also is often shorter and thus the gauge changes as well, making for a different resonance. Many characterize this as a resulting "honky" tone -- and I don't mean honky-tonk, but rather, some unpleasant phase interaction in the midst.

OK, so now let's get into some more esoteric territory, which is what I think matters the most because anyone can use their ears to judge whether they like a particular upright or spinet based on its "stock" sound.

Well, my bandleader's upright has three different places where the cabinet can open up! Most can only open at the top, if at all! His old Baldwin can open at the very top, it can lift out the front section above the keybed, and it can even lift out the front section below the keybed! There are even some uprights that have "wings"!

The reason for this is that it helps to match the upright to a particular room, making it more versatile in a variety of acoustic environments. Also, it gives more flexibility in distance from a wall.

As it turns out though, this opens up so many different sounds that one would beg for a library that achieves this. It turns out that Pianoteq is the go-to for the ultimate flexibility in upright sound production, even though they essentially are modeling the high-end Yamaha SU118 and that model alone (as I recall). It has become my go-to upright for all purposes (jazz, reggae, stride, etc.).

As with grands, however, there are uprights with specific timbres that people may remember and thus wax nostalgic for or want to emulate or evoke (especially in film music). So, one might want to augment Pianoteq with a sample library or two.

Sampletekk's "Rain" (in a new version now; greatly improved) is meant to evoke one that The Beatles preferred at Abbey Road. I thought there were some others that emulate that piano, but they don't show up explicitly as such in my annotation of sound libraries, so maybe not.

OK, so why would one want to use an upright vs. a grand, given that cost isn't the issue with sample libraries as it is with the real deal? Uprights can produce a more intimate sound, and one that maybe doesn't sit so forward in the mix (yet, contrarily, the opposite can be the case if going for a brash stride sound). Generally, they aren't as harmonically rich, are a bit more mid-rangey, and though they can have less desirable phase interaction than most grands, this might also help them stand out more in a dense or loud mix.

There are a lot of famous songs and recordings that we identify with uprights, so as with other sound sources, we may be drawn to them when in a mood similar to the songs we associate with the upright.

The Korg M1 piano sound, which was used by so many reggae bands in the late 80's and early 90's, is clearly a low resolution upright (or at least sounds like one due to the sampling and compression), and was a big contributor the the "bubble" sound between the choppy piano and guitar parts. Historically, most reggae bands were stuck with uprights at the clubs in Jamaica, so they adapted.

As for other upright libraries, the Modern Upright from Addictive Keys (XLN Audio) is probably my favorite, as it samples the ever-popular Yamaha U3 (similar to the also-popular U4).

UVI's upright is interesting, being sampled from a Seiler model. Galaxy used a 1908 Beckstein for The Gentleman (Komplete). EZKeys models a small Swedish Ostlind & Almquist (1960's).

There have been lot of new upright libraries in the past few months, so I can't comment on those as I don't own them. Simple Sam's Vintage Upright is a good buy, as is Sampletekk's Vertikal. Galaxy also has the unusual "The Giant" (several stories tall!). I'm so happy with Pianoteq and XLN's Modern Upright, along with occasional use of the Sampletekk libraries and simple Sam's stuff, that I don't tend to go near the others, but the newest libraries from this autumn (either or both of XLN Audio and Toontracks) are on my list for when next on sale.

As mentioned in the other thread, I have exclusively negative experiences with Synthogy Ivory Italian II so have not gone near their upright. We all listen for different stuff though and have variable tolerance for perceived weaknesses in different areas. For me, nothing is more important than fluidity of phrasing while playing, and then next up is the sensitivity to the full dynamic range and to repeated notes at fast tempi.

[mhschmieder]

Ah yes, "Mrs. Mills" is the "official" nickname of The Beatles (or EMI Studios) worn-in upright, which Sampletekk calls "Rain Piano" (though I don't think they sampled the actual piano).

For a cheapie, you could always donate money at Spitfire Labs for their "free" Bedlam Piano. I haven't used it yet, so can't comment; they release so many products now that I have pulled back from blindly buying all of their Labs releases (or even their main brand name products).

[mhschmieder]

Also, Native Instruments Cuba has an upright that I keep meaning to try to see if it fits well into latin and/or reggae genres. You may already own this one without realizing it (along with Native Instruments The Gentleman, produced by Galaxy Instruments).

[Henry Robinett]

Lol. I read the first three posts in this thread before I realized you were talking about upright PIANOS and not basses!!

[HCMarkus]

Sorry Henry. Thanks MHS! I knew I could count on you to offer some fertile grounds for exploration.