DP9 with Apogee Duest, USBStreamer and Motif XF firewire

[Romanp]

I want to use DP to mix my Motif XF7 16 audio buses which get output digitally via the Motif firewire interface along side a MiniDSP USBStreamer B which is a USB to ADAT interface. I want to output an Akai MPC5000 8 channels digitally via the USBStreamer B. So the Motif and MPC5000 outputs are all coming into DP.
As well as recording audio via an Apogee Duet.
At some stage I also will record audio via a Presonus Firewire Litepipe studio receiving 24 ADAT ins and outs via an Alesis HD24XR.

Before I attempt to make all this work I thought I would consult the experienced DP users.
Will this all work together?
It will be a simple composition set up for sequencing songs on the Motif, drums on the MPC5000. DP9 functioning as a digital mixer and adding audio tracks on top.
This will be reasonably portable for collaborations with musicians.

Thanks for any time to answer my query.
Greetings from New Zealand.
Roman.

[David Polich]

Obviously this post has gone unanswered for a long time. I think your setup is way too complex
and isn't something everyone else has, thus the lack of answers to your questions. And you have
some basic misconceptions about the Motif XF's digital output. It doesn't output 16 audio busses via Firewire, for starters. You have 16 "channels" in a Motif song mix, but those are all summed to a stereo left-right output going out the FireWire output.

Second, you have too many audio interfaces and devices that you are trying to somehow get "into" DP simultaneously. Not gonna happen. You should have hardware mixer that you can plug your Motif and MPC (and any other synths you have) into, then route a subgroup or bus send from that into your Apogee Duet which will feed DP. Forget this going all digital, the difference in audio "quality" is negligible, and besides, it makes things too complex. You need to simplify your setup.

In short, to answer your question "will this all work together?", the answer IMO is "no".

[Romanp]

Hello Dave,
I bought 'sound advice' which you created. So I have financially supported your product.
I am surprised a Motif expert doesn't know that the firewire interface for the Motif XF is a 16 channel out and 6 channel in audio interface.
The Motif can send 16 channels to a DAW and receive 6 channels back into the Motif.
Here is a 5 minute youtube video that demonstrates the multiple out channels from the Motif going into Pro Tools:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLftDOtUzx4

Your promoted as an international expert and authority on the Motif and even sell video tutorials but you don't know the Motif firewire interface capabilities.
Then you advise to not even bother interfacing my Motif and MPC5000 digital outputs because it is too complex with no audio benefit.
C'mon man.
Your offering advice with no knowledge of the details.
As the youtube video demonstrates the Motif firewire interface allows a simple way to have 16 channels going "into" (as you put it) a DAW.
Why wouldn't I want my Motif's 16 digital outputs and MPC5000's digital ADAT outputs going "into" DP.
It allows me to mix them live and record them in one pass with no conversion or A/D interface necessary.
Sorry if I seem harsh. But your post is misinforming about the Motif FW16e capabilities and you dismiss an advantageous set up with arrogant condescending irrelevant comments about me wanting to use multiple audio interfaces:
"Second, you have too many audio interfaces and devices that you are trying to somehow get "into" DP simultaneously. Not gonna happen."
"Somehow"?
If you don't know the answer then you don't know simple. But telling me what I want to do is too complex or too many audio interfaces is nonsense IMO.

I do understand your recommendation to have a simple analogue mixer bussing my sound sources to an A/D converter. But to have the 16 channels of Motif and 8 channels of MPC5000 coming into DP without the need for 24 A/D converters (the Motif couldn't output 16 separate channels of audio without the firewire anyway) and be able to record it in one pass and or mix it live while composing will be hugely powerful.

And yes I am hoping to record audio as well via an Apogee Duet.
Hey Dave sorry if I seem aggressive. I am a little frustrated with the technological hoops I have to jump through to achieve my musical goals. Misinformation just makes the process harder than it needs to be.

Anyone with experience using multiple audio interfaces with DP?

[David Polich]

Perhaps James should move this thread to the "Off Topic" section.

I didn't give you misinformation. You misunderstood what I said. Yes you have 16 channels of audio from the FireWire card. But the FireWire card itself does not have sixteen separate hardware outputs. Neither does your Duet..it only has two inputs and two outputs. So unless you have some magical way of creating 16 separate hardware inputs to route into DP, you are effectively dealing with only two channels of audio information at any given time.

I'll stand by my statement that what you want to do is too complex. It is. And the advantage you'd gain from going straight digital to digital without "conversions" is too small to be considered significant. A hardware mixer is a much simpler solution, without any of the problems associated with trying to gang together multiple audio interfaces and somehow get them all to clock to the same clock and then into DP. Don't forget, all your audio interfaces have to follow the same master clock. What device provides that?

At least I bothered to give you an answer. It just wasn't one that you liked. Do you see anyone else answering you? No, because the likelihood of someone else having your exact same setup is near zero.

When I give advice on subjects I know about (and I DO know about the Motif, trust me), I choose to give the least complicated solution. Why lead someone down a rocky dirt road filled with weeds when they can just take the freeway, that's my motto. If you choose to continue trying to put together a system that is unnecessarily complicated, that is your decision. You said it yourself, you are frustrated with all the "technical hoops" you have to jump through to achieve your musical goals. Well, dude, my advice is to stop jumping through the hoops. You only have yourself to blame for making it more difficult than it needs to be.

[waxman]

Hey Roman let me jump in...

I've done/tried aggregate set ups for years. They are not always stable. I did Apollo and Presonus 8 ch and light pipe. Tbolt Apollo and FW Presonus. and it was about 60 ticks out for the whole live recording. I did a aggregate with a Apollo and the Studio ai which gave me 32 channels through FW and the Apollo Twin. I've also tried Digi protools with MOTU interfaces. They work kinda. You come back from lunch or an intermission and the whole thing is screwed and usually takes a restart. I have used the MPC 4000 with multi audio out.

Ironically I have all that •••• in my closet because it was flaky. So that's why I went for the Apollo 16 and the 2 Focusrite 828s. The output is through a Neve 8816. This is stable and I have left it on for days like we used to do with machines and consoles. Lol.

Using the UAD mixer works great but my advise is forget the aggregate. I also tried aggregate with USB MOTU Ultralite mk3 USB with Apollo. USB and FireWire aggregates don't play nice. Throw a Adar light pipe in and it recording indigestion.

So bottom line is in theory it should work but it doesn't in my experience. The manufacturers say it works, the manual and even tech support. It's like the OMF thing. It Does not work as advertised. Finally you have to have a really solid good computer to handle that so if your doing some kind of Mac air or mac mini or older laptop or iMac it won't work.

Not only that but programming the routing and sending out 16 channels of their motif and recording them at the same time is a big pain in the ass. All those digital inputs and DP keeping clock in and jitter down to a minimum is just not stable ends up sounding bad jittery and distorted.

To do what you want to do songwriting trust me dump the Motif and MPC and get the NI stuff like the S61 and Machine Studio. It's travels well and you will love it. I feel for you Roman and it's something I tried many times. And take it easy on Dave. He's a good man and was trying to help. Calling him out like that was not cool. Boom

[HCMarkus]

I like the Yamaha hardware; really handy to have a synth you can use with no latency when you need to add a track to a dense production. And many of the sounds are quite good, but, regardless, playback is almost always thru a VI cause the VI's WIN.

I'm with Wax and Dave; keep it simple and make music. No one, but NO ONE is gonna' perceive or care if you have another cycle of DA>AD conversion on your Motif sounds.

[supersonic]

Hey Roman let me jump in...

I've done/tried aggregate set ups for years. They are not always stable. I did Apollo and Presonus 8 ch and light pipe. Tbolt Apollo and FW Presonus. and it was about 60 ticks out for the whole live recording. I did a aggregate with a Apollo and the Studio ai which gave me 32 channels through FW and the Apollo Twin. I've also tried Digi protools with MOTU interfaces. They work kinda. You come back from lunch or an intermission and the whole thing is screwed and usually takes a restart. I have used the MPC 4000 with multi audio out.

Ironically I have all that •••• in my closet because it was flaky. So that's why I went for the Apollo 16 and the 2 Focusrite 828s. The output is through a Neve 8816. This is stable and I have left it on for days like we used to do with machines and consoles. Lol.

Using the UAD mixer works great but my advise is forget the aggregate. I also tried aggregate with USB MOTU Ultralite mk3 USB with Apollo. USB and FireWire aggregates don't play nice. Throw a Adar light pipe in and it recording indigestion.

So bottom line is in theory it should work but it doesn't in my experience. The manufacturers say it works, the manual and even tech support. It's like the OMF thing. It Does not work as advertised. Finally you have to have a really solid good computer to handle that so if your doing some kind of Mac air or mac mini or older laptop or iMac it won't work.

Not only that but programming the routing and sending out 16 channels of their motif and recording them at the same time is a big pain in the ass. All those digital inputs and DP keeping clock in and jitter down to a minimum is just not stable ends up sounding bad jittery and distorted.

To do what you want to do songwriting trust me dump the Motif and MPC and get the NI stuff like the S61 and Machine Studio. It's travels well and you will love it. I feel for you Roman and it's something I tried many times. And take it easy on Dave. He's a good man and was trying to help. Calling him out like that was not cool. Boom

Very glad I read that . I am also using Apollo (the original silver 8 one, with thunderbolt). What I am looking at as a practical solution for DSP corrected 5.1 monitoring. I wish the UAD console allowed for 5.1 control. I have been looking at different room correction solutions. At the moment minidsp DDRC-88A with Dirac software seems an interesting solution but still lacks the kind of surround monitoring functionality you'd need in a studio. I would think a digital to analog solution would be ideal. I don't really need Apollo as sound card for mixing so I could use a digital solution. Of course I could go for the Trinnov D-mon but that is a rather expensive solution.