Multiple MIDI inputs to one track?

[Killahurts]

Hey guys, I'm setting up a new keyboard/MIDI rig that I will use to play and record multiple virtual instruments simultaneously. I will be using only my M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 to play almost everything, and possibly one smaller Korg USB Keyboard for solo instruments. I have several expression pedals that will be used for volume/expression, and other control changes. Each of the volume pedals will be coming in on different channels from a USB box that converts them into MIDI, which is available as a (class compliant) MIDI input in DP, which will be in multi-record mode. Each VI will be addressed by its own channel in MIDI output, but all MIDI inputs will be the Keystation Pro channel 1.

The volume pedals will be assigned to the individual MIDI channels of the VIs they control. So the question is, is there any way to do this without recording 2 tracks for each VI, one for the MIDI notes (Keystation) and one for the volume pedal (cc converter)? It's OK if that's all I can do, just would be a lot easier to deal with one track with volume and notes together. I haven't tried the new "lanes" feature yet, but I assume you can't have a different MIDI input for each lane (would be cool if you could though!).

Thanks!

[csavetman]

I don't mess with MIDI all that often, but isn't this a situation where DP's MIDI device group feature would come into play?

Carlos

[Killahurts]

No because MIDI device groups are for MIDI output only, AFAIK. It would let me have one playback track for everything, but wouldn't really work in my new setup, because I need to be able to turn the record enable on and off in real time as separate tracks for every instrument, and each instrument would need its own track so the different volume/control data would be there for each one.

[bayswater]

I haven't tried this, but could you use the IAC bus, or the equivalent DP InterAppMIDI feature? IIRC, you can use it as an output from a MIDI track, but then use that same feed as an input to another MIDI track. So if the notes come in on channel 1 and the controller on channel 2, you'd output both to IAC bus 1 channel 1, rather than the VI. Set up a third track with output to the VI, and input set to IAC bus 1 channel 1.

[doodles]

Hey! Not sure exactly what you're trying to achieve, but I have 2 keyboards on either side of the studio, both also used for recording various cc data as well. Works fine? Just plug in and play! Or am I missing what you're trying to do? Or if you want to disable various functions from each, couldn't you just go into audio/MIDI setup in system preferences?

[stubbsonic]

The first challenge is that you are using multi-record, which does channelize the inputs (i.e., inputs only respond to data on their respective input device and input channel).

I would be curious to know if you are able to set things up in AudioMIDI Setup to merge some sources and patch them that way. If so, that would be a pretty good way to merge the data. I did a little tinkering just now, and wasn't able to get any kind of merging happening.

Do either the Korg or M-Audio controllers have jacks for CC input pedals? I guess another option would be to get a hardware MIDI merge box, and somehow get the CC pedals into MIDI din format to merge with your controller data. Some controllers have built-in merge functions where you bring in MIDI and it has a setting to merge the incoming data with the output stream.

[Killahurts]

I haven't tried this, but could you use the IAC bus, or the equivalent DP InterAppMIDI feature? IIRC, you can use it as an output from a MIDI track, but then use that same feed as an input to another MIDI track. So if the notes come in on channel 1 and the controller on channel 2, you'd output both to IAC bus 1 channel 1, rather than the VI. Set up a third track with output to the VI, and input set to IAC bus 1 channel 1.

I forgot about the IAC buss! It could work, if it could be set up not to create a MIDI loop.. hmmmm.

[Killahurts]

Do either the Korg or M-Audio controllers have jacks for CC input pedals? I guess another option would be to get a hardware MIDI merge box, and somehow get the CC pedals into MIDI din format to merge with your controller data. Some controllers have built-in merge functions where you bring in MIDI and it has a setting to merge the incoming data with the output stream.

Well first, the two controllers are USB connected. I could use standard MIDI cables, I've got a bunch of interfaces laying around, but I had wanted it to stay USB, to bypass another unnecessary step. Maybe I could find a software MIDI Merge of some sort.

Here's the box(s) that I'll be using to convert the pedals:

http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpressio ... n=overview

I will probably have 12 expression pedals and switches when the new rig is finished.

[bayswater]

I forgot about the IAC buss! It could work, if it could be set up not to create a MIDI loop.. hmmmm.

There shouldn't be a loop. MIDI Sources A & B go to MIDI Tracks A & B. MIDI Tracks A & B are both routed to IAC Bus 1 Channel 1 In. IAC Bus 1 Channel 1 Out is routed to MIDI Track C. MIDI Track C is routed to a VI.

[Killahurts]

I forgot about the IAC buss! It could work, if it could be set up not to create a MIDI loop.. hmmmm.

There shouldn't be a loop. MIDI Sources A & B go to MIDI Tracks A & B. MIDI Tracks A & B are both routed to IAC Bus 1 Channel 1 In. IAC Bus 1 Channel 1 Out is routed to MIDI Track C. MIDI Track C is routed to a VI.

Thanks Bays, I'm gonna try it tonight!

[Shooshie]

Hey guys, I'm setting up a new keyboard/MIDI rig that I will use to play and record multiple virtual instruments simultaneously. I will be using only my M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 to play almost everything, and possibly one smaller Korg USB Keyboard for solo instruments. I have several expression pedals that will be used for volume/expression, and other control changes. Each of the volume pedals will be coming in on different channels from a USB box that converts them into MIDI, which is available as a (class compliant) MIDI input in DP, which will be in multi-record mode. Each VI will be addressed by its own channel in MIDI output, but all MIDI inputs will be the Keystation Pro channel 1.

The volume pedals will be assigned to the individual MIDI channels of the VIs they control. So the question is, is there any way to do this without recording 2 tracks for each VI, one for the MIDI notes (Keystation) and one for the volume pedal (cc converter)? It's OK if that's all I can do, just would be a lot easier to deal with one track with volume and notes together. I haven't tried the new "lanes" feature yet, but I assume you can't have a different MIDI input for each lane (would be cool if you could though!).

Thanks!

You have two sure-fire ways to go.

1) Turn off Multi-Record. All connected MIDI devices will default to the currently record-enabled track. But you can't record multiple instruments at the same time this way. For one instrument at a time, you can plug in as many controllers as you want. I use a Kurzweil 2600, a Yamaha WX5, and a Roland FC300 (pedal board) pretty much all the time when I record. They all work together just fine, but I never try to record two separate instruments at once.

2) Get some MIDI Merge Boxes. With a merge box for each instrument you want to record simultaneously, you can then plug in multiple controllers for each record-enabled MIDI channel. If you want to record on 4 channels, you'll need 4 merge boxes if each one of those channels will be receiving multiple controllers.

There may be another way, but I have never pursued it: some MIDI keyboards may pass on a MIDI Thru channel as their own. IN other words, all devices plugged into it (such as the sustain pedal) will be seen by DP as one controller. Again, I don't know if this is possible or not.

Also, it's been a long time, but MOTU's Clockworks routing software may be of use for this. I used to do some pretty amazing things with Clockworks, but I honestly do not remember if this was one of them. Worth checking out, though.

If I may ask, why do you need to record multiple instruments at once? Are you doing a quartet or something? Duos? If that's what you're doing, I recommend merge boxes. I used to record duos that way all the time, but that was 30 years ago. I don't know who makes merge boxes these days, but I'd guess that Charlie Richmond probably still does. What's his company? MIDI Solutions? You might try him.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

On second thought... Maybe all you need to do is set each controller's output for the MIDI Channel you wish to record for each instrument. In other words, for recording two instruments, one on channel 1 and the other on channel 2, wouldn't it work in Multi-Record if all the controllers were merely set to output to their respective channels? Or are the input settings for multi-record specific to individual controllers? Sheesh... I used to know this stuff. I haven't tried multiple instruments in MIDI in a long, long time.

You may be able to patch the cables to one MIDI output from your MIDI Express or MIDI Time Piece, or whatever, using Clockworks. That would basically be using Clockworks to do MIDI Merge. I HAVE done that in the past, but it was a long time ago on a much, much earlier version of Clockworks. It seems like that was one of the capabilities that went away in about 2003. But it might still do it. Seriously, if you have Clockworks, experiment with it.

The one thing that I KNOW will work is a MIDI Merge Box for each MIDI channel you want to record simultaneously.

Shooshie

[Killahurts]

Thanks Shoosh! All good advice there.

I do have an end goal in mind. As a composer, most of my works (except guitar based songs) are borne out of keyboard improvisations. I've been doing this for many years. I start album themes this way. I will normally use my controller to play the improvisations on VIs, but in multi-record mode, so I can turn layers on and off. In the old days, I had multiple synths and modules, and I would just turn around and play whatever keyboard was making the sound I wanted. Visions of Rick Wakeman, with arms stretched out onto two opposing keyboards!

I don't use click tracks or drum loops in this process- is is, after all, improv- and I'm not a loop/beat/EDM kind of guy. The different instruments do different things, so it's not simply layering the same sounds. I need to have control over the various instruments, particularly volume and octave control, and I need a few switches to trigger sequences and turn arpeggios on and off. That's where all the foot pedal control comes in.

As far as taking it out of multi-record and overdubbing everything goes, that's ultimately what I have to do now, which defeats the purpose. I can play from any keyboard I have hooked up, but one thing at a time. I need the exact opposite of that, to have individual control over multiple instruments, but from one keyboard- like a modern organ of sorts, where there is one keyboard with multiple stops. i.e., all the MIDI tracks would have the same notes recorded into them, but different controls. This idea is not new:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2PMvdfOIIU

But his system is somewhat antiquated, being that he built it over decades, before the technology was there. That system was built for him by Yes Technologies, probably for a fortune.. He doesn't record MIDI, just the separate audio tracks onto multi-track. I want to record MIDI, so I can tweak it if I need to, or even replace instruments. My system will be based on the capabilities of the modern DAW.

I still make records like everybody else, one track at a time.. but I need a more powerful and inspiring rig when composing.

[Shooshie]

Ah, Vangelis. I was just thinking about him a few days ago, wondering whatever became of him. Glad to know he's still out there entertaining the masses.

Shooshie

[reedster]

sounds like a job for Bidule

https://www.plogue.com/products/bidule/