Why I don't use bounce to disk and an alternative.

[Padank]

Hi Everyone,
I know this has been discussed/covered and I am adding my 2 cents in hopes that it will help someone new as the folks around here have been so helpful to me.
I still use BTD for quick checks but will never again use it for keeper mix down, at least with my current setup.

I have been using DP since 4.5 and have rarely (a few, but rare with my last setup) had any glitches with using bounce to disk until the past year or so but a couple of things have changed this year.

1) Been using DP8.07 for a several months. Overall very stable.

2) I seem to have more BTD issues since I added the UAD2 card. No idea why, just an observation.

3) Glitches usually happen during edits or automation.

Some are subtle and a new user might not notice it, some (like today when BTD for an mp3 car check) where down right stutter/glitchy.

All this is solved for me by:

1) Changing all outputs of all tracks including the master to an unused bus. (I usually chose the last one which is 63-64 for my setup) Option- A or Studio/Audio Assignments

2) Create a new track with the input set to 63-64.

3) Enable record and start recording on the newly created track.

I'm am sure there are ways to set it up so that you can monitor during the recording but I do not.

4) When done, I will then select only the newly created track and bounce that to mp3 if needed.* (make sure you are not sending this track through the master a 2nd time during
this process)

*If anyone knows of a reason to do this in a new session, let me know.

It I am missing any steps, please let me know.

Hope this helps someone!
Padank-

[mikehalloran]

I'm am sure there are ways to set it up so that you can monitor during the recording but I do not

BTD? No.

I've never had issues except twice. Both times, the culprit turned out to be bad RAM. Turns out that BTD failures are a very good indicator.

Then again, I've never used UAD cards.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Some BTD issues can be tracked to VIs with large sample counts as well as highly scripted instruments. I have to render these in realtime for some instruments (slide guitar in particular as it uses about a trillion million million samples). OK, maybe not that many...

[bayswater]

I haven't used a UAD in DP for a long time, but didn't things have to run in real time? Same with the PowerCore boards.

[daniel.sneed]

[...]3) Glitches usually happen during edits or automation.[...]

When using heavy plugs on master fader, it has been my experience, too.
That is to say: attempting to achieve mixing & mastering in one single BTD gave glitches at mixing, fade or edit points.
End up with separate 24bit mixing and 16 bit mastering BTD afterwards. All has been fine with BTD, since.

[Padank]

Mike-
I was referring to hearing the bounce during a real time mix down. But actually I just discovered that you can simply unmute the aux that is created and hear it while recording to the 2 track.
Bonus!

Daniel-
Great to know there is a workaround! I may try that but is there any advantage? Seems like an
extra step as compared to the way I presented.

Thanks for everyone's input!

Padank

"When using heavy plugs on master fader, it has been my experience, too.
That is to say: attempting to achieve mixing & mastering in one single BTD gave glitches at mixing, fade or edit points.
End up with separate 24bit mixing and 16 bit mastering BTD afterwards. All has been fine with BTD, since."

[daniel.sneed]

Great to know there is a workaround! I may try that but is there any advantage? Seems like an extra step as compared to the way I presented.

Sure, we all have different workflows.
But may I first suggest to double check BTD with and without heavy plugs instantiated? (Such as Ozone, and the like) That would be an attempt to downsize your BTD problem.

In my own case, BTD glitches seem always related to heavy plugs choking with audio tasks, even very small audio tasks.
Strangely, BTD, which is non-realtime, chokes where playback, which is realtime, does not. I can't figure why. Still a mystery for me.

In the long run I see advantages to keep both files: 24 bit unmastered, and 16bit mastered. Sometimes just changing minimal overall level or eq may be done fast to make songs follow and fit one another on a CD or in a song list.
BTW setting a *mastering* chunk, with all songs following one another, on its own separate track, with exact silence timing, helps me keeping ideas clear.

[mikehalloran]

Hmmm... Using BTD with Ozone has never given me a problem.

[Armageddon]

One question, are you mixing everything in real time or in pre-gen mode? It sounds like you're maybe running VIs -- and maybe even your audio plugs -- in pre-gen mode, which I'm not sure they've ever completely ironed out. Try switching over everything to real time, assuming it's not there already. If it's an issue to run everything in real time, maybe consider rendering your VI tracks to audio (or freeze them, basically the same thing), then just run your audio plugs in real time and bounce to disk that way. If this turns out to be the problem, you can still mix in pre-gen mode, then, just switch everything over to real time before you bounce to disk.

[daniel.sneed]

Hmmm... Using BTD with Ozone has never given me a problem.

Ozone 5 never gave me any problem, but Ozone 6 seems much more of a CPU hog here. In my setup, serious glitches did appear in BTD with Oz 6.

Actually setting a brand new MacBookPro. Hope it will handle Oz 6, Iris 2 and more...

[philbrown]

Every week for years I have bounced huge files with hundreds and hundreds of edits and crossfades with a UAD card and never had one problem. Just sayin'.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Same here except as mentioned above. Come to think of it, the large instrument errors are all 3rd party Kontakt instruments, so it could be a Kontakt error, not a DP issue.

[David Polich]

I've been doing real-time mixdown for years.
Ever since DP 4.5. I first render all VI tracks as
audio, so its only audio that I am mixing down.
Zero issues with this method.

[Tim]

4) When done, I will then select only the newly created track and bounce that to mp3 if needed.* (make sure you are not sending this track through the master a 2nd time during
this process)

*If anyone knows of a reason to do this in a new session, let me know.

It I am missing any steps, please let me know.

Hope this helps someone!
Padank-

Why BTD the mix file rather than export as mp3?

[mhschmieder]

Although I only use BTD on my final stems for the pre-master final mix, I have never had issues at that stage. I don't use it earlier in production because I want to verify everything anyway, but due to getting different results on repeated real-time stem production when heavy plug-ins are used that sometimes overrun the plug-in compensation limit, I have considered switching to BTD for my stems as well.

I don't use iZotope Ozone inside DP so can't comment, but iZotope Alloy does seem to be one of the plugs that potentially (depending on settings, and the rest of the signal path) gives me different results when doing real-time mixing. Also IK Multimedia AmpliTube.