There's a new "B3" in town

Discussion of Digital Performer use, optimization, tips and techniques on MacOS.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by mikehalloran »

cbergm7210 wrote:
dewdman42 wrote:VB3 is still the one. I wish Guido would port it to 64bit, but I doubt he ever will as he seems to be focused on selling hardware now.
You know, I can use B4II successfully with JBridge but VB3 does not show up in DP after converting it in JB. Is anyone using VB3 with JBridge in DP? The plug is in the newly created folder next to the B4II but no go in DP.
I don't see a VB3.vst library on my system, only an VB3.component AU in the Components folder.

J-Bridge only works with VST libraries. In addition, their GUIs must work in a Cocoa environment.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
cbergm7210
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:34 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: High Ridge, MO

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by cbergm7210 »

mikehalloran wrote:
cbergm7210 wrote:
dewdman42 wrote:VB3 is still the one. I wish Guido would port it to 64bit, but I doubt he ever will as he seems to be focused on selling hardware now.
You know, I can use B4II successfully with JBridge but VB3 does not show up in DP after converting it in JB. Is anyone using VB3 with JBridge in DP? The plug is in the newly created folder next to the B4II but no go in DP.
I don't see a VB3.vst library on my system, only an VB3.component AU in the Components folder.

J-Bridge only works with VST libraries. In addition, their GUIs must work in a Cocoa environment.
Yes, the VB3.vst is there next to the B4II:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn35 ... pcibuo.png
Mac Pro 2.66GHz Dual Quad Core Nahalem, 16 Gigs RAM, DP 9, RME Fireface 800, MOTU MIDIexpress 128, Mac OS 10.8.5

http://www.rfjmusic.com
User avatar
Gravity Jim
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by Gravity Jim »

I am always interested in this ongoing conversation: but it occurs to me reading this that I don't have enough call for a Hammond sound to worry about it. NIVO's works fine.

I also had a recent conversation with NI and had my misconceptions (and those of many, many users) corrected: I always thought B4II was a modeler and VO made of samples, but they are actually the same program: the difference in sound is that a different Hammond B3 was used for the VO samples.

I don't know why they don't use the B4II samples... it seems everyone prefers them. But for the once a year or so that I actually need a Hammond, VO is swell (now that I have the drawers mapped to the sliders and buttons on my Keylab 49).
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by mikehalloran »

Yes, the VB3.vst is there next to the B4II:
Hmmm... perhaps I had the option to install the vst and didn't. Anyway, if it was written before 2010, it's highly unlikely it will support Cocoa. In that case, it won't work in OS 10.8 or later.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
musicman691

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by musicman691 »

Gravity Jim wrote:I am always interested in this ongoing conversation: but it occurs to me reading this that I don't have enough call for a Hammond sound to worry about it. NIVO's works fine.

I also had a recent conversation with NI and had my misconceptions (and those of many, many users) corrected: I always thought B4II was a modeler and VO made of samples, but they are actually the same program: the difference in sound is that a different Hammond B3 was used for the VO samples.

I don't know why they don't use the B4II samples... it seems everyone prefers them. But for the once a year or so that I actually need a Hammond, VO is swell (now that I have the drawers mapped to the sliders and buttons on my Keylab 49).
If this is true than the sample set for B4II has to be quite large to accomodate the various drawbar sets (clean, dirty, etc.) and VO doesn't have. This is also quite different than what people were told when VO launched as part of Kontakt. We were told VO was samples and that B4II was modeled. That came from NI themselves. Not doubting what you found out - just posting my ruminations.
User avatar
Gravity Jim
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by Gravity Jim »

Whatever. As I said before, I don't give a flip. As often as I need to "make a Hammond noise here," VO is fine. And as for the whole speed-shop chatter surrounding "the hot set-up," I've never cared much about that. It is anathema to creativity.
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
User avatar
monkey man
Posts: 13918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by monkey man »

HCMarkus wrote:ANYTHING through the Ventilator sounds wonderful.
'Swat I've been sayin' for years.

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
MOTU DP8.07, MachFive 3.2.1, MIDI Express XT, 24I/O
Novation, Yamaha & Roland Synths, Guitar & Bass, Kemper Rack

Pretend I've placed your favourite quote here
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by mikehalloran »

And as for the whole speed-shop chatter surrounding "the hot set-up," I've never cared much about that. It is anathema to creativity.
Ha!

:headbang:
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
musicman691

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by musicman691 »

Posted about this over in the NI forums in this thread: https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... ii.261132/ and a couple of people who know a whole heck of a lot about NI both posit that the original B4 and B4II were modeled. It's interesting that they were both actually made in Reaktor and then released as standalone.
David Polich
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by David Polich »

And now there's this new B3 VI:

http://www.uvi.net/en/pianos-keyboards/ ... suite.html

Audio demos sound pretty good. Again, it comes down to the rotary speaker effect and
the vibrato/chorus. If those two are nailed, you have the game.

The importance of a good B3 sound is proportional to how much "B3" you use in your
productions, and whether you are a Hammond player. It's both for me - I do a lot of country-rock
production (where B3 is pretty much the dominant keyboard instrument these days) and I'm an old-school B3 player. Owned a B3 years ago, continue to work in situations where one is present, very very familiar with all aspects of the sound.
2019 Mac Pro 8-core, 32GB RAM, Mac OS Ventura, MIDI Express 128, Apogee Duet 3, DP 11.2x, Waves, Slate , Izotope, UAD, Amplitube 5, Tonex, Spectrasonics, Native Instruments, Pianoteq, Soniccouture, Arturia, Amplesound, Acustica, Reason Objekt, Plasmonic, Vital, Cherry Audio, Toontrack, BFD, Yamaha Motif XF6, Yamaha Montage M6, Korg Kronos X61, Alesis Ion,Sequential Prophet 6, Sequential OB-6, Hammond XK5, Yamaha Disklavier MK 3 piano.
http://www.davepolich.com
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by mikehalloran »

David Polich wrote:And now there's this new B3 VI:

http://www.uvi.net/en/pianos-keyboards/ ... suite.html

Audio demos sound pretty good. Again, it comes down to the rotary speaker effect and
the vibrato/chorus. If those two are nailed, you have the game.

The importance of a good B3 sound is proportional to how much "B3" you use in your
productions, and whether you are a Hammond player. It's both for me - I do a lot of country-rock
production (where B3 is pretty much the dominant keyboard instrument these days) and I'm an old-school B3 player. Owned a B3 years ago, continue to work in situations where one is present, very very familiar with all aspects of the sound.
I also use the samples from Retro Organs (now part of a new UVI Retro Organs Suite at $83.50 from AudioDeluxe) but I use those as-is. Some of those samples are also found in MachFive.
http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 6&start=75


The upgrade for me is $59.

A friend has an old Hammond B. It has an extra set of tone wheels. That's an organ VI I'd like to own seeing how the real deal weighs 500lb more than a B3. On the rare occasions he brings it to a gig, he has to make sure that the stage is reinforced. Yikes!
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
David Polich
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by David Polich »

mikehalloran wrote:
A friend has an old Hammond B. It has an extra set of tone wheels. That's an organ VI I'd like to own seeing how the real deal weighs 500lb more than a B3. On the rare occasions he brings it to a gig, he has to make sure that the stage is reinforced. Yikes!
He likely has a model BV or BC. There were no Hammonds with the name "Model B". The BV's and BC's didn't have an extra set of tonewheels per se, they had a chorus generator unit which was basically half a set of tonweheels with different pitch ratios that added...well, the "chorus" effect. The chorus generator was produced to answer complaints that the Hammond tone was "too pure".

These old chorus generator units were indeed heavy, but they didn't add 500 lbs to the weight. More like 150 lbs. If they weighed 500 libs. they would have been too heavy to remove for service, and the organ simply couldn't be moved at all with that much extra weight. Make no mistake though, an extra 150 lbs. is a lot.

With the introduction of the Model CV, the first scanner/vibrato unit appeared on a Hammond.
The scanner vibrato unit was basically a multi-stage phase shifter, and weighed a lot less than the
chorus generator. With the introduction of the B3, the scanner chorus/vibrato unit was added, replacing the scanner vibrato unit. The scanner chorus/vibrato could switch between six different modes of vibrato, three vibrato and three were chorus.
2019 Mac Pro 8-core, 32GB RAM, Mac OS Ventura, MIDI Express 128, Apogee Duet 3, DP 11.2x, Waves, Slate , Izotope, UAD, Amplitube 5, Tonex, Spectrasonics, Native Instruments, Pianoteq, Soniccouture, Arturia, Amplesound, Acustica, Reason Objekt, Plasmonic, Vital, Cherry Audio, Toontrack, BFD, Yamaha Motif XF6, Yamaha Montage M6, Korg Kronos X61, Alesis Ion,Sequential Prophet 6, Sequential OB-6, Hammond XK5, Yamaha Disklavier MK 3 piano.
http://www.davepolich.com
musicman691

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by musicman691 »

musicman691 wrote:Posted about this over in the NI forums in this thread: https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... ii.261132/ and a couple of people who know a whole heck of a lot about NI both posit that the original B4 and B4II were modeled. It's interesting that they were both actually made in Reaktor and then released as standalone.
I know it's bad form to reply to one's own post but I looked at the B4II manual which I have on my daw computer because of having said vi and right on page 6 it says B4II is a model. Also there are no samples for B4II anywheres on the computer unlike there are for VO.
User avatar
bayswater
Posts: 11924
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:06 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by bayswater »

I hated B3s in the day. I always avoided playing in bands that had one because I'd always get stuck helping carry the damn thing around. Even worse if the guy had a Leslie. The players seemed to spend half of each practise dealing with bad capacitors.

I'm feeling much better now.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: There's a new "B3" in town

Post by mikehalloran »

bayswater wrote:I hated B3s in the day. I always avoided playing in bands that had one because I'd always get stuck helping carry the damn thing around. Even worse if the guy had a Leslie. The players seemed to spend half of each practise dealing with bad capacitors.

I'm feeling much better now.
Even after I bought a van in 1986, I was careful not to let anyone know. I figured if I did, it would mean hauling the organ and PA for the rest of my life.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
Post Reply