DP9 - Import score?

[bogmusic]

Hi guys, gals and gurus
I am excitedly navigating my way around DP9 having just made the upgrade (while on holiday in Durness).
A very good friend of mine has just asked me if I would like to collaborate with him on some projects and I am very keen to do this. He uses Sibelius for score writing and is usually happy with a sketchy sound palette as his scores are intended for live play. He wants me to counter/augment his arrangements with my own ideas and take the projects to a higher level of production than either of us has done previously and I am totally up for it.
My first question is what is the best way of getting his scores into DP9. Can this be done from a musicxml file or is MIDI the only way?
Or (2nd question) is there another platform I can work with as a half-way-house to 'save as' a recognisable format? I want to do my bit with DP9 rather than a score editor however I would be happy enough to use it synced up score writing software if necessary.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated as the score editing / MIDI manipulation side of things is not an area I am too familiar with.
Thanks
Simon

[williemyers]

Simon, the following may not be of much help, but, for what it's worth...
I'd try *both* XML & MIDI. That is, ask him to save a simple few bars as XML, then save that same section as a multitrack MIDI file. Then open both in DP9 and check your results? Also, you might want to drop over to the Sibelius Forum, do a "search" on XML and read the comments there?

[mikehalloran]

No. DP 9, like Logic Pro, can only export MusicXML, not import.

The workaround is to export the Sibelius files as MIDI and import those into Digital Performer.

Some of us use Finale to import MusicXML and export MIDI.

[bayswater]

Regardless of its merits as a scoring application, MuseScore2 (free) will import and export MIDI and MusicXML files, and so can serve as an exchange point. It is available for OS X, Windows, and various Linux versions.

What are the relative merits of trading files via MIDI versus MusicXML (assuming you do the composition work itself in a scoring application)? What would be preserved by transferring a MusicXML files that is lost in a MIDI file?

[mikehalloran]

What would be preserved by transferring a MusicXML files that is lost in a MIDI file?

About everything that makes it sheet music.

I'm not being facetious but a question like that indicates little or no knowledge of MusicXML. Best to start here:
http://www.musicxml.com/tutorial/

[mikehalloran]

Not all MusicXML is equal. Finale, Sibelius, SmartScore Pro II and some others support the full implementation of v.3. Sheet music exported from one to the other should differ only in the fonts used. This assumes that the notion software has all of the features that exist in 3.0, not an assumption that applies to MuseScore, for example.

Encore, SmartScore Lite and many others support only v1.x. Like a MIDI transfer, lyrics, repeats and most expressions do not translate. Still, MusicXML ports over more info than a MIDI export can – it's just not as obvious.

I don't know about DP 9. If lyrics export is supported, then probably all or part of 3.0 – to the extent that QuickScribe supports the feature set in 3.0 (many notation features do not exist on QS).

[kinnylandrum]

I am in the process of doing exactly this, right now. A friend has written a 30 minute ballet score for 6 instruments (flute w/dbls, clarinet w/dbls, violin, cello, piano and percussion) and I am making a good sounding demo for the choreographer using VSL, EWQLSO Miroslav and other Vis in DP.

The only way is with a MIDI file from Sibelius. It works generally OK, but there are lots of variables that require editing. It looks like this 30 minute score will take 40 hours of studio time to realize. But on the other hand, playing everything in would take much longer. You can PM me if you want any more real-world advice.

[bogmusic]

Thanks guys

@ bayswater
I was after MusicXML for the embedded instrument names linked with each track so I could be sure I wasn't replacing violin with banjo. (This may not be an issue anyway but I am a bit green in this department)

@ mikehalloran & williemyers
I hear you. I am looking at "Sibelius First" as a half-way-house tool so I can start with native files and control what I export and how - and I will have more certainty that I am hearing what my collaborator was hearing during composition. I can then take advantage of Sibelius' rewire capabilities to sync with DP if running Sibelius & DP in parallel proves to be more effective.

I will check Finale out before I take the plunge with Sibelius though

This is all looking very positive so far!

Regards Simon

[mikehalloran]

I am in the process of doing exactly this, right now. …
The only way is with a MIDI file from Sibelius. It works generally OK, but there are lots of variables that require editing. It looks like this 30 minute score will take 40 hours of studio time to realize. But on the other hand, playing everything in would take much longer. You can PM me if you want any more real-world advice.

If DP 9 supported MusicXML import and the full implementation of 3.0, then everything in the score would appear in DP sorted by instrument, key signature and key including transposing instruments.

You would still have to assign your VIs etc. but it would save a lot of time.

As it is now, you can only export from DP 9. It's a start but not very useful to me.

[mikehalloran]

Thanks guys

@ bayswater
I was after MusicXML for the embedded instrument names linked with each track so I could be sure I wasn't replacing violin with banjo. (This may not be an issue anyway but I am a bit green in this department)

@ mikehalloran & williemyers
I hear you. I am looking at "Sibelius First" as a half-way-house tool so I can start with native files and control what I export and how - and I will have more certainty that I am hearing what my collaborator was hearing during composition. I can then take advantage of Sibelius' rewire capabilities to sync with DP if running Sibelius & DP in parallel proves to be more effective.

I will check Finale out before I take the plunge with Sibelius though

This is all looking very positive so far!

Regards Simon

Bayswater's suggestion of using MuseScore isn't bad if you can make it work. You can't beat the price.

I use Finale and have little use for Sibelius. Thanks to MusicXML 3.0, that should be ok. You work in one, I work in the other and our scores can translate. MuseScore, too, once they get a few things worked out.

MusicXML is now owned by MakeMusic, owners of Garritan, Finale and SmartMusic. Michael Good, the inventor of MusicXML is a VP. He and I have been known to perform Gilbert and Sullivan from time to time over the last 25 years, both onstage and in the orchestra pit.

The M-XML code is offered free to developers to encourage as many companies as possible to get on board.

[bogmusic]

You can PM me if you want any more real-world advice.

That's very kind sir
I may well take you up on that
(but I will save it until I hit a nice big problem lol)

Your ballet project sounds like it's going to be great. Our project is going to be "cinematic" which all depends what films my collaborator has in his head when he says that, I'm a zombie film man myself with more of a taste for Cristobal Tapia de Veer than John Williams!

This is the kind of stuff:
https://soundcloud.com/cristobal-tapia- ... s/utopia-1

Regards
Simon

[bayswater]

What would be preserved by transferring a MusicXML files that is lost in a MIDI file?

About everything that makes it sheet music.

I'm not being facetious but a question like that indicates little or no knowledge of MusicXML. Best to start here:
http://www.musicxml.com/tutorial/

Correct. I know nothing about MusicXML. That's why I asked. Thanks for the link.

What I was getting at has to do with playback: what you hear. Does MusicMXL provide something that is lost in the translation on playback? I know MIDI can't tell what clef notes are on and other things associated with representation, but these things don't affect what you hear.

[mikehalloran]

What I was getting at has to do with playback: what you hear. Does MusicMXL provide something that is lost in the translation on playback? I know MIDI can't tell what clef notes are on and other things associated with representation, but these things don't affect what you hear.

A highly qualified It shouldn't affect what you hear - assuming that the MIDI files were exported and imported correctly. As you know, that is not always a given.

MusicXML assumes that sheet music is involved in the process somehow. Otherwise, what's the point?

Michael invented it so that publishers could code and exchange sheet music files. Then he discovered that publishers have no interest in that at all. Fortunately for him, he found other uses...

With 3.0, it's getting very good.

[bogmusic]

A highly qualified It shouldn't affect what you hear - assuming that the MIDI files were exported and imported correctly. As you know, that is not always a given.

MusicXML assumes that sheet music is involved in the process somehow. Otherwise, what's the point?

Michael invented it so that publishers could code and exchange sheet music files. Then he discovered that publishers have no interest in that at all. Fortunately for him, he found other uses...

With 3.0, it's getting very good.

Mike

Thanks for your help with this, especially your succinct summary of MusicXML 3.0 and its role in modern scoring and music making. I have now read a lot of the articles on the MakeMusic site and the extra knowledge will probably stay with me helping me bridge the gap between old school score writing and Audio/MIDI production work!

I was on the verge of taking the Sibelius route but the limit of 16 parts put me off. I read about Notion 5 in Sound On Sound back in May so I thought I should checked that out as well as Finale http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may15/a ... otion5.htm
I downloaded the demo and tried it out with Garritan Personal Orchestra (which I already had installed in this Macbook Pro). Straight away it just clicked with me - I found my way around very quickly and the workflow is intuitive to me, slotting in nicely with the way I use DP. I may even rewire it in to DP and use the two together since I seem to be able to use the two do this on the Macbook without any glitches.

I have only one example file from my collaborator friend (Phil is a Pianist and music teacher) to try out which I have loaded into Notion and I have also exported MIDI into DP and then exported as MusicXML. That all seemed to work fine although I now see that our exchanges can be done in a number of ways without losing anything significant.

Anyhow, I bought Presonus Notion 5 last night and have been playing with it today. I am very impressed with the ease of use and the emphasis on performance rather than publishing. It could be just the ticket for many other DP users, at £79 its worth a look!

It would still be nice to have MusicXML import in DP (as well as a continuous scrolling view in Quickscribe instead of virtual pages) as I would love the ability to contain an entire project within DP, especially on my laptop. Ah well, I suppose you have to leave something to look forward to in the future!

Regards
Simon

[mikehalloran]

When I think about MusicXML import into DP, I see quite a challenge to make it work well. Still, I'd like to see it as there are projects in which it would be quite a time saver for me.

We who want it can lobby MOTU for this feature. I imagine it would take a large number of requests to justify the expense, however. It's a business decision and if only a few of us want it, not likely. Still...