Comp Take Tool is ridiculously amazing. 2 workflow questions

[FMiguelez]

Hello.

What a great feature. I´m really loving the Comp Take Tool.

My favourite workflow with singers, when I need to select the best take at the phrase level, is to loop a region, and listening to the takes by simply clicking on them in real time. It couldn't possibly be easier.

However, there are a couple of workflow things that I'm not sure how to handle...

1.- I don't find this feature useful at all when working with voice over talent, because their takes never match since they're not recorded to a metronome or precise musical notation. And most of them are different, by request, of different "feels" and intentions and speed-

Do you guys use it for VOs? If so, how? Unless the takes are pretty similar in speed, the takes sometimes even overlap, having to move then manually and thus defeating the fast takes comp tool workflow.

With my current workflow, I'm simply recording "wild" takes of paragraphs (1 paragraph per track), one after the other in the same track and take, and then I choose the parts I want and assemble them in a master track.
Do you have a better method for this?


2.- With singers, I usually leave the best 4 or 5 takes of every part of the song. From these, the best parts of takes are assigned to the lead vocal. So once I do the Take Comps workflow and have my final take, I sometimes like to use the other takes for thickening the main vocal in certain parts.
However, I would love it if there were some way to automatically ignore (don´t see) the parts of the takes that have already been taken by the main comped vocal.
This way, it would be so easy to avoid doubling a part that has already been taken, so they all are true distinct performances.

Wouldn't it be great if DP automatically had a function that automatically did that for thickening or coming up with 2nd alternate bests that could be used?

I'd appreciate any ideas or suggestions for these two points.

Thanks!

[MartinBaird]

Regarding your point #2 - YES!!!! I've been wishing for this since comping was added to DP years ago. This would be a wonderful feature to add to be able to quickly double or triple the main vocal as you said. MOTU, I hope you're hearing this - thanks!
Martin

[bayswater]

Even after you've merged the comp, the sections of the takes used in the comp are highlighted (and there is a command to redivide the comp at the section boundaries from the takes). So you know what was used in the comp. If you delete unused takes, the used sections of the takes are still highlighted. Doesn't that do what you need?

[Prime Mover]

I worked with VO for years, but I was mostly working in Premiere Pro (since the end result would be video), the few times I did it in DP was to add special processing, or just because I was at home and had DP running. No, I wouldn't use the Comp tool for VO, it's really only useful for click-tracked or grid-aligned material, and VOs aren't that precise. I'd probably do manual comping: create a comp take, and then skip through the takes and pick out the best sections, "select copy/paste" them into the comp take, and then move them around as need-be. Be handy with those "Roll" and "Slide" keyboard shortcuts, they can speed up the process significantly.

As for #2, lol, I've been there! I've sometimes done "crowd vocals" like that, but what do you do if they main is comp'd? And even for your secondaries, some parts are going to be throwaways, so you'll probably want to do some comping too. Can't help ya, just something you'll have to work around. Realistically, sometimes there's no problem using a few words here or there from the same takes, just nudge them over in time and no one will ever know.

[FMiguelez]

Even after you've merged the comp, the sections of the takes used in the comp are highlighted (and there is a command to redivide the comp at the section boundaries from the takes). So you know what was used in the comp. If you delete unused takes, the used sections of the takes are still highlighted. Doesn't that do what you need?

Not really...

I´d like to have a command that did this:

Get me a new track, automatically, with ONLY the takes (or parts of takes) that have not been used in the main comped main take-

This way, I would´t even have to guess, or pick and choose what hasn´t been used. Granted. I can see by the shades what has been used already, but I´m seeking a quicker and easier way that doesn't involve comparison or too much further mangling around.

No, I wouldn't use the Comp tool for VO, it's really only useful for click-tracked or grid-aligned material, and VOs aren't that precise.

Agreed. Not particularly useful for this.

As for #2, lol, I've been there! I've sometimes done "crowd vocals" like that, but what do you do if they main is comp'd? And even for your secondaries, some parts are going to be throwaways, so you'll probably want to do some comping too. Can't help ya, just something you'll have to work around. Realistically, sometimes there's no problem using a few words here or there from the same takes, just nudge them over in time and no one will ever know.

I normally only leave in the takes the best 4 or 5, and they are usually good enough for doubling the main vocal. I just need to adjust the timing, so it feels tight.

What you describe is what I´ve been doing, but I really think this process could be improved and streamlined with some clever MOTU programming.

Regarding your point #2 - YES!!!! I've been wishing for this since comping was added to DP years ago. This would be a wonderful feature to add to be able to quickly double or triple the main vocal as you said. MOTU, I hope you're hearing this - thanks!
Martin

I'll send MOTU this suggestion. Hopefully you will do so too, so it has a small chance of ganging some traction over in Cambridge

[mikehalloran]

I do some VO work, generally in DP but the last one was done in TwistedWave on my iPhone with an external mic -- still, I used DP to edit and sync with the video.

DP's time stretch/shrink functions don't sound very good yet I need that in VO far more often than with music. I've not checked to see if DP 9 was an improvement but it wasn't in the list. Of course, MachFive3 is great and that's why I bought it but still, a better sounding time compression in DP would save a lot of time.

[Phil O]

...Do you guys use it for VOs? If so, how? Unless the takes are pretty similar in speed, the takes sometimes even overlap, having to move then manually and thus defeating the fast takes comp tool workflow...

This is a problem with VOs no matter what your workflow. It's just the nature of the beast. In the final edit stuff is gonna get moved, and that stuff causes other stuff to get moved, etc., etc.

If there's a way to effectively use the comp tool for VOs, I haven't found it. I usually work with multiple tracks - my main vocal track and one or two "takes" tracks. If a sentence at 5:03 needs another take, I'll record that take in another track at 5:03. It might be shorter or longer than the original track, but I don't have to mess with the timeline until the final editing. The disadvantage, of course, is that you can't hear the natural flow of the passage until the editing occurs. It's a trade-off. But isn't everything we do?

A little while back I worked on a project where voice had to be overdubbed to video. The scene was in a small motorboat and extraneous noise ruined the dialog. Because the actors had to sync to the original dialog, it was like working with a click track. The comp tool really worked well here. The foley work was a blast, BTW.

Phil

[Killahurts]

We've done a lot of VO here for many years. DP is not my first choice, unless we're syncing with a movie or multi-tracking. Most of our scripts are automated nowadays, but when we have to record "free" VO, we use the old time honored paper script, and mark the attempts and best takes.

If I were going to do the same thing in DP, I would make markers as I went and then comp the track later by flipping around them and copy/paste the desired bites to the target.

[Killahurts]

DP's time stretch/shrink functions don't sound very good yet I need that in VO far more often than with music. I've not checked to see if DP 9 was an improvement but it wasn't in the list. Of course, MachFive3 is great and that's why I bought it but still, a better sounding time compression in DP would save a lot of time.

Amen! I would LOVE it if MOTU would license the UVI time stretch in MachFive for DP. They might get a lot more DP users with that kind of power, which is arguably the best in the business.

[bayswater]

IRCAM TS is at Don't Crack for $79. Perhaps it can be used as the external waveform editor in DP. Not as convenient as a plugin, but more convenient than using MachFive.

[Killahurts]

Yep. AFAIK, MachFive doesn't even support dragging and dropping in DP

So it's definitely a hassle. $79 is a great price if you don't have M5.. but to have it integrated into DP would be the Holy Grail.

[bayswater]

Yep. AFAIK, MachFive doesn't even support dragging and dropping in DP

So it's definitely a hassle. $79 is a great price if you don't have M5.. but to have it integrated into DP would be the Holy Grail.

Agree. But we got what we got. IF MOTU adds TS to DP, it's not likely to happen until V10. Even then, I'd rather have it as a AU plugin for $79 so I can use it with DSP-Q, Logic, etc. IRCAM advertises being able to use it in real time, so a plugin ought to be feasible.

[mikehalloran]

Yep. AFAIK, MachFive doesn't even support dragging and dropping in DP

So it's definitely a hassle. $79 is a great price if you don't have M5.. but to have it integrated into DP would be the Holy Grail.

Agree. But we got what we got. IF MOTU adds TS to DP, it's not likely to happen until V10. Even then, I'd rather have it as a AU plugin for $79 so I can use it with DSP-Q, Logic, etc. IRCAM advertises being able to use it in real time, so a plugin ought to be feasible.

Something to investigate. I forgot it wasn't that much $$. Thanks!

[FMiguelez]

IRCAM advertises being able to use it in real time, so a plugin ought to be feasible.

YES!

Having that as a AU and MAS plug-in in DP would be more than fantastic!

And I agree. This would be a strong point for MOTU when they give us DP10. This feature alone would add so much value and coolness factor!

[mikehalloran]

IRCAM TS is at Don't Crack for $79. Perhaps it can be used as the external waveform editor in DP. Not as convenient as a plugin, but more convenient than using MachFive.

http://store.dontcrack.com/product_info ... ts_id=1680