Drum Programming, Transposition, etc.

[cbergm7210]

Do we agree that the Transpose plug should also apply when clicking on notes in the editor (I use the regular MIDI editor, not the drum editor)?

Yes definitely.

[SMS]

I must be missing something re: Trillian. I've been using this very nice sounding bass VI since it was known as Trilogy.

Unless I don't remember changing a default, it always sounds the note I play on my controller (which is not transposed).

IOW, if I play Middle C on the keyboard through Trillian, Middle C is what is sounded and recorded.


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OK, I've been looking at Trillian, and can't find anywhere to change this behavior- there is an "Octave" setting on the edit screen, and it's set to "-1", but when I change that to "0", no notes sound below B1. I assume Trillian does this to leave room for keyswitches in the lower octave. If yours really does sound at pitch, please tell me what MIDI note # your controller is sending for Middle C. Mine is 60, which is standard. A played middle C (MIDI note #60) definitely generates a C3 (1 octave below Middle C) from Trillian.

Thanks

[David Polich]

Correct weight, Dave!

From memory I think it was based on the MT-32 mapping, and because it was such a popular unit Roland (and subsequently the rest of the crowd) just went with it.

I agree that it's a crappy mapping and a bugger to play, but as I suggested, I'm used to it now and I love standards (and default settings!). It's 'cause of my penchant for such things (in the interests of repeatability mostly) that, from what you've just told me, the 230-odd pieces I've sitting waiting for development will be more-easily rendered as they date back to the late '80s and all employ the GM mapping.

Thank you, mate; it's great to know that all drum VIs provide this option at the click of a button. Ripper!

MM, you are correct, oh wise one. Roland developed the GM standard for their MT-32 module.
And none of the manufacturers questioned it.

If the GM drum map was for a left-handed drummer, then the hi-hats would not be "to the right"
of the snare. And the hi crash would be to the right of the low crash. But they aren't. This is why
the GM (stands for "Gee, Must we use it") drum map sucks so bad. It makes no sense whatsoever!

I re-map drumkits so I'm comfortable playing them on the keyboard, and so that they make sense to me (as I started out playing drums as a kid).

Oh and by the way, all drum VI's kits are mapped to the GM standard...you don't "push a button". They come that way. It's up to the user to remap them as desired. Which I still highly recommend.

[HCMarkus]

Or get a drum pad and set up the layout there. I use two presets: 1. Hit Hats and 2. Everything Else

[SMS]

Oh and by the way, all drum VI's kits are mapped to the GM standard...you don't "push a button". They come that way. It's up to the user to remap them as desired. Which I still highly recommend.

BFD3 by default is down an octave compared to the GM map, among other differences

[bayswater]

[If the GM drum map was for a left-handed drummer, then the hi-hats would not be "to the right" of the snare. And the hi crash would be to the right of the low crash. But they aren't.

?? My hi-hat is to the right of my snare. (I'm left handed). I only have one crash.

Anyway, suggesting GM is modelled on a left handed drummer was my lame joke. For me, the thing is to have some standard -- any standard -- so I can simply apply a drum track to a different VI without a lot of editing. I enter the MIDI data from a set of pads and pedals arranged as a left handed kit unless it's just one or two drums at a time, so the arrangement of notes on a keyboard is secondary.

Cubase had saveable "remaps" for drums with names , so that helped a bit, but the variety of seemingly random drum maps out there is time consuming confusion.

[SMS]

Do we agree that the Transpose plug should also apply when clicking on notes in the editor (I use the regular MIDI editor, not the drum editor)?

Yes definitely.

Thank you.

[monkey man]

Correct weight, Dave!

From memory I think it was based on the MT-32 mapping, and because it was such a popular unit... blah... blah... and a bunch of Monkey Dribble™

MM, you are correct, oh wise one.

I'm taking that to the bank and locking it in a safety-deposit box, Davo. Coming from you, that's gold, mate!

This is why the GM (stands for "Gee, Must we use it") drum map sucks so bad. It makes no sense whatsoever!

Agreed. It's still a standard 'though, and I'll take a standard over a crapshoot any day, as I'm sure would you.

Oh and by the way, all drum VI's kits are mapped to the GM standard...you don't "push a button". They come that way.

Awesome, David! Thank you, mate.

Cubase had saveable "remaps" for drums with names , so that helped a bit, but the variety of seemingly random drum maps out there is time consuming confusion.

I loved the remapping features in Cubase back in the days when I used it on the ATARI. I assume you're talking about the same ones, Stoivo. Steinberg had it solved way back then... in version 2.

[bayswater]

Cubase had saveable "remaps" for drums with names , so that helped a bit, but the variety of seemingly random drum maps out there is time consuming confusion.

I loved the remapping features in Cubase back in the days when I used it on the ATARI. I assume you're talking about the same ones, Stoivo. Steinberg had it solved way back then... in version 2.

That's the chap. I stayed with it until SX 3, and left because it wasn't snappy enough.

[SMS]

Oh and by the way, all drum VI's kits are mapped to the GM standard...you don't "push a button". They come that way.

Awesome, David! Thank you, mate.

My experience tells me otherwise...

[monkey man]

Wha?... noooo!

Please, SMS, if there are any that don't, could you or someone point to them so I know to look out for this? I'm just the sort of sucker who'll jump in and buy a VI thinking I've researched it well, only to find that an obscure (but important to me) detail has escaped me.

I'd not ask if budget wasn't an issue, so sorry if this seems trivial.

[SMS]

BFD3 for one. The great thing about VIs is that most allow you to download demo (or sometimes even full!) versions to see if they fit your workflow. I havr BFD3, Superior Drummer, and Slate Drums, all great and slghtly different. Slate is the closest to GM mapping, and though great for rock, less versatile than the others. Also cheaper. They all sound great, and has been stated, can be remapped however you like. Worth the time if you have it.

Spence

[bayswater]

Wha?... noooo!

Please, SMS, if there are any that don't, could you or someone point to them so I know to look out for this?

Strictly speaking, lots of them don't. The GM standard didn't anticipate things like articulations, and left and right hits, so most of the sets I see have things more or less in the GM order, but rearranged to accommodate extra sounds. Not just drum VIs. In Mach 5 and UVI for example, the factory programs have one patch set aside for GM. The rest diverge.

[SMS]

Wha?... noooo!

Please, SMS, if there are any that don't, could you or someone point to them so I know to look out for this?

Strictly speaking, lots of them don't. The GM standard didn't anticipate things like articulations, and left and right hits, so most of the sets I see have things more or less in the GM order, but rearranged to accommodate extra sounds. Not just drum VIs. In Mach 5 and UVI for example, the factory programs have one patch set aside for GM. The rest diverge.

+1

[David Polich]

[If the GM drum map was for a left-handed drummer, then the hi-hats would not be "to the right" of the snare. And the hi crash would be to the right of the low crash. But they aren't.

?? My hi-hat is to the right of my snare. (I'm left handed). I only have one crash.
.

Just sayin' - for a left-handed drummer, you play the snare with your right hand and the hat with your left, correct? So for a left-handed drummer the hats would be to the left of D1 (default key for the snare).