2010 MacBook too slow for DP8 project??

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:02 pm

Okay... just checking in for some advice from the brain trust here. I may have a plan of attack, but would like to run it by you guys first.

I have a mid 2010 MacBook... the one with the white plastic case. Picked it up used for cheap, although wish it had Firewire but that's another story.

http://apple-history.com/mb_mid_10

So I'm using this for backing tracks for a band I'm putting together. It's connected via USB to a MOTU MIcro Express MIDI interface (in my guitar rack) for MIDI chores, as well as a MOTU Audio Express for audio playback.

I'm using the Chunks feature, naturally, and have a main project file with 4 chunks in it. Each chunk is the backing tracks for a song. Recently I loaded a 5th chunk into the project when we added another song. For the first time, DP 8 threw up an error dialog that samples were skipped. It couldn't keep up. It seems that the 5th chunk is the tipping point and playback issues can happen on any of the chunks now in the project. Most recently it resulted in click going out of time with the audio. Pretty sure it is dropped samples. I removed the chunk, and all is well. However, this presents a problem because I anticipate needing to have a master project with roughly 10 songs minimum when the project is ready to perform live.

I could always spend more money and go for a newer MacBook Pro, but I suspect the problem isn't the MacBook as I'm not using a lot of plugs or anything. Very small basic projects. I have 8GB RAM installed (even though Apple says the max is 4GB). My thought is that this is because I'm using the internal 5400 rpm drive for the boot drive and for the projects. So rather than shell out bucks for a faster MacBook Pro, I'm thinking I get the OWC Data Doubler kit. What it's for is removing the optical drive and adding a second hard drive in its place.

My gut says, for the price of the kit and a 7400rpm drive which I can use exclusively for DP projects, I should be okay. Am I on the right track?

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:25 pm

Okay... I'm notoriously impatient. I think this will do the trick.

I'm getting the Data Doubler:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DDAMBS0GB/

And a Hitachi 500GB 7200 RPM conventional hard drive:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DDAMBS0GB/

Grand total: $85. Keep in mind this is just a playback machine and I don't want to sink a lot of money into it, but I think getting the projects onto their own separate drive that's also faster (7200 vs 5400) will get me where I want to be. Also, I don't really see any need to go to SSD in this application, nor do I think I'll replace the 5400 main drive. I think it boots fast enough for my needs. I'll place my order first thing in the morning if there aren't any red flags here.

If it doesn't work, I can just go find a used MacBook Pro that takes more RAM and has faster processor, but I really think this should fix the problem.

toodamnhip · Post by **toodamnhip** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:45 pm

Any time I see 5400 rpm drive I think “trouble”. They’re just not meant for audio streaming of any kind, especially when doubling as a system drive...

I have an old computer with a seagate 1500 rpm drive, I rarely see those speeds anymore, nor do I see a lot of 10,000 rpm drive.. I wonder why? hmm...

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:18 pm

toodamnhip wrote:Any time I see 5400 rpm drive I think “trouble”. They’re just not meant for audio streaming of any kind, especially when doubling as a system drive...

I have an old computer with a seagate 1500 rpm drive, I rarely see those speeds anymore, nor do I see a lot of 10,000 rpm drive.. I wonder why? hmm...

Yep... seems like the least expensive solution to this problem. I'll probably go ahead right now and pop for the $85 for the Data Doubler and the drive.

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:13 am

Good plan James, just be careful with the extra heat the 7200 drive will generate in the case. You might want to invest in one of those "heat sink" or fan-cooled laptop stands, or at the very least, don't leave it on a solid flat surface.

The biggest problem with the extra heat is, you can really damage the battery in there. My wife's old MBP had a fast HD, and the heat ultimately caused something with the battery, and the case itself became "pregnant" on the bottom, so the computer wouldn't sit flat anymore. Replacing the battery was difficult, because the old one was so swelled up.

On her new (refurbished) 2011 MBP, we put an OWC Extreme SSD in there, and not only does it run cool, we can do insane live tracks (using chunks like you are), along with several VI's, etc.- never any issues.. I know you don't want to spend the $$ on SSD, but just sayin.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:31 am

Hmmm... food for thought. Be a bit weird to have a SSD for projects but booting off an old 5400 RPM spinner, but who knows. I don't need a large capacity drive. Maybe should call OWC.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:49 am

Killahurts wrote:Good plan James, just be careful with the extra heat the 7200 drive will generate in the case. You might want to invest in one of those "heat sink" or fan-cooled laptop stands, or at the very least, don't leave it on a solid flat surface.

The biggest problem with the extra heat is, you can really damage the battery in there. My wife's old MBP had a fast HD, and the heat ultimately caused something with the battery, and the case itself became "pregnant" on the bottom, so the computer wouldn't sit flat anymore. Replacing the battery was difficult, because the old one was so swelled up.

On her new (refurbished) 2011 MBP, we put an OWC Extreme SSD in there, and not only does it run cool, we can do insane live tracks (using chunks like you are), along with several VI's, etc.- never any issues.. I know you don't want to spend the $$ on SSD, but just sayin.

Thanks for the info. Just got off the phone with OWC and was able to change my order. I got an OWC 3G 240GB SSD instead. Be weird booting that thing off the 5400 rpm drive, but whatever. There's a point where I don't what to pour more money into it. Down the road I can replace the boot drive if I feel the need.

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:51 am

Well what we did was to replace the 5400 with the SSD, leaving the optical drive in there. So the startup drive is the project drive, and the VI drive as well! The SSD is so fast, it can do everything without a hiccup.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:24 am

No kidding? Oh okay, well I'll try that. I think 240GB should be enough. I'll just save the Data Doubler in case. Probably could move the spinner to the optical bay and use it for Time Machine backup perhaps.

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:43 am

Our MBP has Thunderbolt, so I figured I would replace the internal, and if it wasn't enough, I'd get a TB external SSD for the project drive. But there was never the need.

I'm not a drive expert, but I do think that it is the seek time in the SSDs (or actually lack of it) that is responsible for being able to run everything on one drive, as opposed to throughput.

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:48 am

BTW, OWC sent the drive with a little kit (USB to The SSD) that made it easy to replace and clone the startup drive onto the SSD. I think we used Carbon Copy Cloner, or something like that to clone it. You might ask them if they will include the little kit.

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:37 pm

A 5400 drive is certainly fast enough for streaming. A 7200 is only a little better in a MacBook and generates more heat. Compared to a PPC, the bus speeds are 60x faster but you run into platter limitations so real world performance os only 35x faster with a 5400 and 42x faster with a 7200.

A SSD is much better, of course, since it will max out the bus speed.

In the real world, streaming isn't that big a tax on the system unless it is a large number of VIs. By the time that happens, available RAM and CPU overhead all have an impact. An i7 over an i5 makes a much bigger difference overall.

So is a 2010 MacBook too slow? No unless it's a large project or involves video.

If you create a boot drive by cloning (never recommended except by those who sell cloning apps), run the OS installer afterwards. Among other things, this will create the Option-Boot repair partition that cloning will not. In the case of OS 10.10.4, run the Installer first, then run the 10.10.4 Combo updater as this fixes an anomaly caused by the OS installer.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:53 pm

Well the 5400 drive might be theoretically fine, but I'm having issues and dropped samples with the project in using and DP 8.07 so not sure what gives. I ordered the 240GB SSD. It was too late to cancel the data doubler.

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:57 pm

James Steele wrote:Well the 5400 drive might be theoretically fine, but I'm having issues and dropped samples with the project in using and DP 8.07 so not sure what gives. I ordered the 240GB SSD. It was too late to cancel the data doubler.

You've seen my TTP graphs on HDs that show up 'fine' in Disk Utility and other programs. There is a reason that I always recommend TechTool Pro. A number of heat glitches show up on a TTP graph and nowhere else and those are problems that interfere with the proper operation of a drive.

If it's the original drive and otherwise tests good, It's a good idea to reformat the drive and select Write to Zeros – this will force the OS to write a new partition map on the drive to identify any bad sectors and avoid them. Five years is long in the tooth for a drive that you depend on.

The other reason for TTP is to test RAM. Bad RAM is the other suspect when samples get dropped.

When an Apple laptop gets this old, time to budget for a new battery – even if the old one holds a decent charge or you never run off of battery power. I have two MacBooks rendered useless by expanded batteries that broke motherboards. Sometimes, when they go, it takes only a few hours (my daughter's 2010 three weeks ago) while other times, you notice that the keyboard just doesn't feel right and you can catch it in time. According to my son-in-law, older iPads and iPhones are doing this, too.

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YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:08 pm

Looks like I'll have to look into buying TTP. Probably should have bundled it with the drive. Sounds like something OWC would have given a great price for as part of the entire order. I do remember they had some sort of utility package that I could have opted to add to my order, but I passed on it and so it's too late for that.

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