Plug-ins mode pre-gen

[James Steele]

I was under the impression that ANY TIME a you have a rec-enabled MIDI track, the VI that it targets is ALWAYS taken out of pre-gen and switch to real-time. In fact, a work around to quickly get "audible mode" for the MIDI Graphic Editor was to go up to the top and put the track in rec-enable which automatically switches the VI from pre-render to realtime. The reason for this is that the VI can't pre-render that which it doesn't know is coming. At any time a rec-enabled VI could receive note data or continuous controller, etc. and it couldn't not respond immediately as would be needed.

Maybe that was said already and I don't understand something... I admit I skimmed the topic very quickly.

[bayswater]

I'm happy to try it out if there's some reliable way to tell if pregen is active.

[James Steele]

I'm happy to try it out if there's some reliable way to tell if pregen is active.

If you record enable a track I'm pretty sure it's always in realtime mode. One way I can tell this is that if you select a MIDI track with something like an AlphaTrack or FaderPort (so the track doesn't need to be rec-enabled to send volume to the VI like you'd have to with a keyboard controller) and attempt to adjust the volume of the MIDI track targeting the VI during playback, the VI won't respond smoothly and stutter. It's running in pre-gen mode. If you rec-enable the track however, it switches to real-time mode and it will be smooth. Alternatively, any time you open the plug-in's GUI, it switches to real-time mode, the assumption being that you're going to be adjusting a parameter so the VI needs to be responsive.

Best as I understand it:

When if a plug-in has been set NOT to run in realtime, it will be in pregen mode all the time EXCEPT when a MIDI track targeting that VI is rec-enabled or the Plug-in window is open and on the screen.

[musicman691]

So if I route the output of a VI in a V-Rack to an audio track indirectly via an Aux, plugins on the audio track with monitoring on would pre-render as long as the audio track and the MIDI track are not in record mode. If so, it's hard to see why DP would not be able to pre-render the same plugins on the Aux that sits earlier in the chain.

DP's programmers seem to design everything with a caveat. I wonder if they have meetings to determine the caveats they'll incorporate into new designs. Seems they could just program though them and not limit things. Sometimes I get a little tired of that. A feature sounds really cool, then you start getting into the gray area and fine print. (which is hard to find, or non-existent until we ask Magic Dave)
Oh well... it's a strange little app, but it's OUR strange little app.

Shoosh

Agreed in full.
Something that I wonder about is if some of these caveats could be taken care of but because MOTU tries to not break backwards compatibility they don't do it? Or maybe the code would take a massive enough rewrite it can't be readily done?

[oshtakuta]

Hi!Can I switch off this real time mode completely and forget the nightmare with sound stutters and interrupts while closing windows in the process. Or shall I have to spend money for another DAW. Such obscure things are scary and spoil my mood.

[Shooshie]

I was under the impression that ANY TIME a you have a rec-enabled MIDI track, the VI that it targets is ALWAYS taken out of pre-gen and switch to real-time. In fact, a work around to quickly get "audible mode" for the MIDI Graphic Editor was to go up to the top and put the track in rec-enable which automatically switches the VI from pre-render to realtime. The reason for this is that the VI can't pre-render that which it doesn't know is coming. At any time a rec-enabled VI could receive note data or continuous controller, etc. and it couldn't not respond immediately as would be needed.

Maybe that was said already and I don't understand something... I admit I skimmed the topic very quickly.

Yeah, we know that about MIDI tracks. What is a little gray is whether audio tracks follow the same concept. Both tech support guys whom I talked to said that audio is still pre-rendered if it's record-enabled. Of course, if you hit RECORD, then it's going to be in real time.

But despite their assurances, I'm still doubtful about audio tracks being pre-gen even if record-enabled. Time was when record enabled tracks would not even play back until you record-DISable it. The more I think about it, the more it seems unlikely that pre-gen works on record-enabled audio tracks.

The manual says nothing about record-enabled audio tracks, but it does say that record-enabled MIDI tracks are exempt from pre-gen, as are aux and instrument tracks.

Instrument tracks comprise the other gray area. We know that plugins are not pre-rendered on instrument tracks, but it seems that VIs ARE pre-rendered, and it doesn't matter if they are in the Tracks Overview window or V-Racks.

But a post from Magic Dave would clear all this up. Or if someone wanted to run tests on all variables.

Shoosh

[monkey man]

... Or shall I have to spend money for another DAW. Such obscure things are scary and spoil my mood.

Try focussing on one or some of the myriad superb features DP offers instead.

Every DAW has its shortcomings; they're all works in progress. Chances are that any anomalies you experience, whether with this feature or others, will be cleared up as the app develops.

Failing this, I'd recommend Tooty-Fruity Hoops. Lots of entertaining colours there... but then again, DP has that covered with a whole heap of dung.

... The reason for this is that the VI can't pre-render that which it doesn't know is coming.

Fail! Fail! Fail!

Geez... will I have to spend money on another DAW now, Jimbo!

[oshtakuta]