Logic Plugins in DP?

[JSmith1234567]

Would bundled Logic plugins work in DP?

I don't know if they are regular AU plugins, or are built into the program?

I like the look of their metering plugin, which has no corollary in DP.

http://testtone.com/developers/apple/level-meter

I'd like to use in addition to DP's own meters page to have a group of meters
I want always on screen.

DP has the "Calibration" plugin, but the meter is not really too elegant.

There are some third-party meters, but they are either standard old-fashioned "analog VU-meter" types (not bar-graph) or they have all sorts of inter-sample-peaks and phase and other stuff I really don't want to look at.

[Shooshie]

Would bundled Logic plugins work in DP?

I don't know if they are regular AU plugins, or are built into the program?

I don't think so. If they worked as independent AU plugins I believe I'd have heard of it by now.

[Gravity Jim]

Bundled Logic plugs do not show up as AU plugs in any other software. If you're dying to use their VIs (and some of them are really cool), there are methods for saving Logic to DP, but that sounds like it wouldn't even be close to what you're hoping for.

Waves PAZ-Meters is neat and clean.

[bayswater]

As I recall it, the bundled Logic plugins are not even AUs let alone accessible to other applications. You can slave Logic to DP and use anything in its signal path, but you might wonder whether having a signal going back and forth would affect metering accuracy.

There are a lot of 3rd party metering plugins that will work with DP. There was a lengthy discussion a while ago here:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... in#p437597

[dewdman42]

the logic plugins are hard coded into Logic, they are not actual AU's. If you want to use those, just do it in logic. Every other solution is kludgy

[monkey man]

AFAIK, no DAW out there allows its bundled plugs to be used anywhere else.

Why would it? It'd only detract from sales, after all.

[dewdman42]

That's debatable. Presuming nobody pirates them, you could only get the plugins if you buy the DAW, so the sales would still be there. In fact maybe more potential because some people would buy logic, for example, just to get the plugins to use in Live or DP or whatever.

Mainstage couldn't be at the pricepoint it currently is, however, in order to continue incentivizing logic sales.

Me personally I am totally annoyed by the fact that logic and dp have plugins included which can't be used in other hosts. I don't like being locked into just one daw. I'm perfectly willing to buy them both but having to switch from one to the other daw just in order to use a particular plugin, as opposed to being for the reason of a particular workflow that one provides over the other, is really annoying. For this reason I nearly always avoid using any of those built in plugins even though some of them are pretty cool. There are always 3rd party alternatives which aren't locked in. The built in plugins ultimately provide nearly zero purchase incentive to me for this reason, though I'm happy to use basic built in plugins like EQ, compression, etc. The instruments are where I draw the line. This is why I never bought reason too. Propeller heads did not incentivize me in the least by making their system so closed.

Image line and some others do not lock their plugins into only their daw and that makes an fl studio purchase that much more interesting. They give people more reasons and options to spend their money.

[David Polich]

With the exception of Sculpture (a great physical modeling synth), there is nothing in Logic
plug-in or VI-wise that you can't get from a third party vendor somewhere else. Seriously, there
isn't.

Examples -
EVB3 - get GSI's "VB3" organ.
EVP88 - get AIR instruments "Velvet" .
Logic Amp Sims - geez, Amplitube 3, ScuffhamAmps, Softube Amps - these all are better.
Logic Drum Machine- there are so many drum machine style VI's out there, I've lost count.
fxPansion's Geist is a very good one. Arturia's Spark is another.
EXS24 - this sampler is so long in the tooth it's a joke. Get Native Instruments Kontakt 5.
ES1 - Native Instruments FM8 is better sounding and a more flexible FM synth.
ES2 - u-He Diva, Arturia's vintage classic synths, G-force Minimonsta and Oddity - all of these
sound better and are more flexible.

I've never liked a single one of Logic's stock plug-ins, including their now outdated Convolution
Reverb, which MOTU surpassed years ago with ProVerb.

[Robert Randolph]

With the exception of Sculpture (a great physical modeling synth), there is nothing in Logic
plug-in or VI-wise that you can't get from a third party vendor somewhere else. Seriously, there
isn't.

Examples -
EVB3 - get GSI's "VB3" organ.
EVP88 - get AIR instruments "Velvet" .
Logic Amp Sims - geez, Amplitube 3, ScuffhamAmps, Softube Amps - these all are better.
Logic Drum Machine- there are so many drum machine style VI's out there, I've lost count.
fxPansion's Geist is a very good one. Arturia's Spark is another.
EXS24 - this sampler is so long in the tooth it's a joke. Get Native Instruments Kontakt 5.
ES1 - Native Instruments FM8 is better sounding and a more flexible FM synth.
ES2 - u-He Diva, Arturia's vintage classic synths, G-force Minimonsta and Oddity - all of these
sound better and are more flexible.

I've never liked a single one of Logic's stock plug-ins, including their now outdated Convolution
Reverb, which MOTU surpassed years ago with ProVerb.

That's a lot of money to spend if he already owns Logic and is ok with its offerings.

It's also a good reminder of how far behind DP is compared to Logic's offerings. DP doesn't even have an included analog to most of Logic's instruments. Though, DP still wins on effects hands down.

[bayswater]

AFAIK, no DAW out there allows its bundled plugs to be used anywhere else.

Other DAWs' plugins don't appear anywhere in the Finder, but DP's are just sitting there, bare-assed in the plugin folder. Wouldn't they work with another MAS host, if you could find one?

[dewdman42]

There isn't another MAS host so it's a moot point.

I agree the logic plugs are dated. Someone here is wanting to use them so they must have a few fans out there. Really the only point of bundling the plugins with the daw is so that someone can buy a daw and start making some music out of the gate without necessarily having to buy anything else. Mainly we should be buying a daw for its workflow features more so then because we like the plugins. I doubt anyone is going to choose DP9, for example, because it has mx4 in it. That will make it a little bit more useful as an all inclusive product that includes a decent synth in it, and so competes with other products that include synths, but really do you think many people will switch over from say logic to DP just so they can use MX4? I don't think so. I bought MX4 once upon a time and I will be pissed as hell if a new 64bit vst/Au version is not released at the same time. In that case it makes sense for them to only ship a MAS version with DP9, since they sell it as a separate product. If they stop selling it as a separate product then it should absolutely not be locked into MAS only, that will just be annoying!!!

[monkey man]

That's debatable. Presuming nobody pirates them, you could only get the plugins if you buy the DAW, so the sales would still be there. In fact maybe more potential because some people would buy logic, for example, just to get the plugins to use in Live or DP or whatever.

Mainstage couldn't be at the pricepoint it currently is, however, in order to continue incentivizing logic sales.

Me personally I am totally annoyed by the fact that logic and dp have plugins included which can't be used in other hosts. I don't like being locked into just one daw. I'm perfectly willing to buy them both but having to switch from one to the other daw just in order to use a particular plugin, as opposed to being for the reason of a particular workflow that one provides over the other, is really annoying. For this reason I nearly always avoid using any of those built in plugins even though some of them are pretty cool. There are always 3rd party alternatives which aren't locked in. The built in plugins ultimately provide nearly zero purchase incentive to me for this reason, though I'm happy to use basic built in plugins like EQ, compression, etc. The instruments are where I draw the line. This is why I never bought reason too. Propeller heads did not incentivize me in the least by making their system so closed.

Image line and some others do not lock their plugins into only their daw and that makes an fl studio purchase that much more interesting. They give people more reasons and options to spend their money.

I totally get you, dewdman, with the highlighted caveat not to be ignored IMHO. Could go either way, I s'pose.

For someone like me who only uses a single DAW, the more included FX and VIs the merrier. Quite apart from the cost savings, I very much appreciate the repeatability factor / legacy-project loading benefits. To me, these are paramount, especially as projects can span a period of 15 years (and counting!). I kid you not - health and finances have perhaps placed me in an unenviable and unique position, and I concede my bias is accordingly reflected thereby; I cannot overstate how important it is to me to be able to maximise my use of built-in plugs where quality isn't sacrificed to a great extent. I live in dread of having to complete the 220-odd projects that're sitting there... waiting... and with any luck, the task starts later this year! Yay! I think...

Anyway, you make some valid points. I just don't think the manufacturers see it quite your way. I s'pose the insular nature, as it might appear, of the various companies reflects their fear of risking losing man-hours of plug development, which after all, are specifically targeted at attracting new customers. That risk you mention of pirating, in their eyes at least, improves from a 50 / 50 thing to, well, zero with the approach they've taken.

AFAIK, no DAW out there allows its bundled plugs to be used anywhere else.

Other DAWs' plugins don't appear anywhere in the Finder, but DP's are just sitting there, bare-assed in the plugin folder. Wouldn't they work with another MAS host, if you could find one?

I bet they would... if anyone could find one, Stiovo.

[dewdman42]

yea. Well people pirate entire DAW's too. That isn't really a solid reason to lock the plugins into only their DAW. I agree with you that these manufacturers seem to feel opposite as me, obviously. Its still annoying!

[billf]

For someone like me who only uses a single DAW, the more included FX and VIs the merrier. Quite apart from the cost savings, I very much appreciate the repeatability factor / legacy-project loading benefits.

The approach to the legacy challenge can also be to keep older machines for restoring old projects, or stick to a small set of long standing third party plugins such as Waves that you know have continuity.

However, I've had issues where something such as having used a VI such as MachFive version 1 on a legacy project can cause launch challenges on a modern set up. In cases such as that, having made good session notes can obviate the problems.

[mikehalloran]

For someone like me who only uses a single DAW, the more included FX and VIs the merrier. Quite apart from the cost savings, I very much appreciate the repeatability factor / legacy-project loading benefits.

The approach to the legacy challenge can also be to keep older machines for restoring old projects, or stick to a small set of long standing third party plugins such as Waves that you know have continuity.

However, I've had issues where something such as having used a VI such as MachFive version 1 on a legacy project can cause launch challenges on a modern set up. In cases such as that, having made good session notes can obviate the problems.

I agree with both. There were some changes between DP 7.24 and 8, most notably to the Trim plugin. None of the functionality is gone but some of it moved and that creates an issue when you open old projects.