MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

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comp15
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MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by comp15 »

I have what is perhaps considered an unusual issue:

DP on the master, then VEPro 5 and Play on the slave are all communicating well. I'm recording without a problem. The MIDI sounds fine as I play the instruments independently and they also sound good while I'm recording.

However, a strange quality is heard only upon playback within DP. The recorded MIDI sounds "thin" almost as if it's "phasing in and out". (Please let me know if I should provide a better description of how it sounds.) All recorded MIDI sounds this way - strings, brass, etc.

Since it's happening only upon playback, that must indicate it's a setting within DP. Has anyone experienced something similar? I haven't routed to include any reverb. What else do you think it may be?
HARDWARE:
MAC HOST: 2.8 GHz 2010 Quad-Core Intel Xeon; Memory 32 GB OSX Ver 10.7.5
PC SLAVE: ASUS Sabertooth X79 ATX Intel Motherboard; Intel Core i7-4730K 3.2GHz Six-Core Desktop Processor; CORSAIR Vengeance 64GB Ram (8 x 8GB); Corsair Obsidian Series 900D CC-9011022--WW Black Computer Case; Steinberg UR22; Win 8.1

SAMPLE LIBRARIES (only on PC Slave): East West Hollywood Diamond libraries of Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion, Symphonic Orchestra, Pianos Platinum, Symphonic Choirs, RA
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HCMarkus
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by HCMarkus »

Just to be clear, MIDI doesn't sound. It's the devices it instructs to produce sound that do so.

Based on your words, it appears your controller may be outputting, and DP recording, more than one channel of MIDI at a time. If it's not in multi Record Mode, DP auto channelizes incoming MIDI to a single channel. When you play your recording back, two or more voice are being played for each note and you get that thin, phasey sound.

Inspect the data in a recorded MIDI track… good chance you'll see duplicate notes spaced closely together. You can remove with the duplicates with a command in DP, but look to your MIDI controller as the likely culprit, not DP. Make sure the controller is sending data on a single MIDI channel only.
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3rdeye
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by 3rdeye »

Are you routing your audio within DP? Make sure your audio patch-thru options are setup correctly and that you are not otherwise retriggering your samples while also monitoring the recorded signal.
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stubbsonic
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by stubbsonic »

As others have stated, this sound is typically of a MIDI routing problem. I expect you would have heard the flanged/doubled notes during recording if it went down that way. Now you just have to see why DP is sending the track info to the VI more than once.

Shouldn't be too difficult to track down.
M1 MBP; OS 12, FF800, DP 11.3, Kontakt 7, Reaktor 6, PC3K7, K2661S, iPad6, Godin XTSA, Two Ibanez 5 string basses (1 fretted, 1 fretless), FM3, SY-1000, etc.

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MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Check (and toggle) the input monitor.
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Shooshie
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by Shooshie »

I'd look for double notes. Check your keyboard to see if "Local" is off. (It should be) A keyboard can have local on or off, playing internal sounds or acting as a mute controller, respectively. I'm not sure that it could cause two triggers, but it's a place to start.

Another possibility is overlapping zones. If your keyboard can be divided into zones, they may overlap, sending two MIDI signals for the same key. On my keyboard, you can make the entire keyboard range overlap in two or more zones. It can produce interesting effects, but it sends a MIDI command for each zone. Generally, zones are for giving you real-time performance control over two or more sounds.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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stubbsonic
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by stubbsonic »

Since it sounded fine during recording, it makes me think that somehow the input was channelized so that it recorded correctly, but after recording, the omni thing with multi-record off would have merged the events into the same track. That's worth a look.

If you don't track it down based on the above, you might go into more detail about your hardware and software setup.

But I speak for everyone when I say we're pretty confident that what you describe is a doubled MIDI note problem.
M1 MBP; OS 12, FF800, DP 11.3, Kontakt 7, Reaktor 6, PC3K7, K2661S, iPad6, Godin XTSA, Two Ibanez 5 string basses (1 fretted, 1 fretless), FM3, SY-1000, etc.

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philbrown
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by philbrown »

HCMarkus wrote: Inspect the data in a recorded MIDI track… good chance you'll see duplicate notes spaced closely together.
I always use the event list for this kind of troubleshooting.
2020 iMac 27" 3.6GHz 10 core i9 • Mac OS 12.2.1 • DP 11.04 • UAD-8 Octo card • Midas M32R

Plugs: UAD•Slate•Scuffham•Flux IRCAM•NI Komplete•Klanghelm•Waves•Spectrasonics•Arturia•Soundtoys•Nomad Factory•PSP•Stillwell•Cytomic•Korg•Five12•GForce
comp15
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by comp15 »

Thanks everyone. You nailed the issue. There are in fact two MIDI notes stacked on top of one another. I've gone in and deleted each, but that took awhile. The command to do this would be useful. However, I'm a little unclear as to how to prevent double MIDI notes.

The MIDI monitor registers a MIDI signal coming through the audio interface (UR22) as well as the MIDI controller (Alesis Q88). There are limited instructions in the Q88 manual, but it's relatively easy to assign the MIDI keyboard to one channel, though this is where I'm confused. I've assigned the Q88 to output on one MIDI channel, yet two MIDI notes continue to be recorded. I know this is simple, but what do you suggest from here?
HARDWARE:
MAC HOST: 2.8 GHz 2010 Quad-Core Intel Xeon; Memory 32 GB OSX Ver 10.7.5
PC SLAVE: ASUS Sabertooth X79 ATX Intel Motherboard; Intel Core i7-4730K 3.2GHz Six-Core Desktop Processor; CORSAIR Vengeance 64GB Ram (8 x 8GB); Corsair Obsidian Series 900D CC-9011022--WW Black Computer Case; Steinberg UR22; Win 8.1

SAMPLE LIBRARIES (only on PC Slave): East West Hollywood Diamond libraries of Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion, Symphonic Orchestra, Pianos Platinum, Symphonic Choirs, RA
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stubbsonic
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by stubbsonic »

Oh. You should have asked here before you deleted those duplicates. There IS a Remove Duplicates process that is quick & easy.

Region Menu/Apply MIDI Plugin.../Remove Duplicates

Hey, in Preferences and Settings/Play and Record/MIDI Solo & Patch Thru

There might be some settings in that Patch Thru section that are relevant. You can mess with those settings to see if that fixes anything.

Do you have MIDI cables going both to and from your Q88? You could try only connecting the MIDI out of the Q88 while tracking, that might prevent a second note being patched thru to your Q88 and back into the track (though I expect that would have caused a loop-- which would be... um... noticeable). Hmmm.

You could describe the entire route from hardware through to AudioMIDI setup, through DP and out to VI's and anything else. I'll bet you'll find it.
M1 MBP; OS 12, FF800, DP 11.3, Kontakt 7, Reaktor 6, PC3K7, K2661S, iPad6, Godin XTSA, Two Ibanez 5 string basses (1 fretted, 1 fretless), FM3, SY-1000, etc.

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Tritonemusic
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by Tritonemusic »

stubbsonic wrote:Oh. You should have asked here before you deleted those duplicates. There IS a Remove Duplicates process that is quick & easy.

Region Menu/Apply MIDI Plugin.../Remove Duplicates
I seem to recall going through this arduous task manually the first time it happened to me, years ago. Then, I had a crazy revelation and decided to research the manual, LOL! :rtfm: (I was RTFM'ing myself, not you, comp15). :wink:
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philbrown
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by philbrown »

This might help find the source of your double notes and any other MIDI troubleshooting:

http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/
2020 iMac 27" 3.6GHz 10 core i9 • Mac OS 12.2.1 • DP 11.04 • UAD-8 Octo card • Midas M32R

Plugs: UAD•Slate•Scuffham•Flux IRCAM•NI Komplete•Klanghelm•Waves•Spectrasonics•Arturia•Soundtoys•Nomad Factory•PSP•Stillwell•Cytomic•Korg•Five12•GForce
comp15
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by comp15 »

The root cause stemmed from the Q88. I had to set it to USB MIDI out. Before that, the signal was returning to the MIDI controller and creating a duplicate signal. In other words, you guys got it right again.

thanks
HARDWARE:
MAC HOST: 2.8 GHz 2010 Quad-Core Intel Xeon; Memory 32 GB OSX Ver 10.7.5
PC SLAVE: ASUS Sabertooth X79 ATX Intel Motherboard; Intel Core i7-4730K 3.2GHz Six-Core Desktop Processor; CORSAIR Vengeance 64GB Ram (8 x 8GB); Corsair Obsidian Series 900D CC-9011022--WW Black Computer Case; Steinberg UR22; Win 8.1

SAMPLE LIBRARIES (only on PC Slave): East West Hollywood Diamond libraries of Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion, Symphonic Orchestra, Pianos Platinum, Symphonic Choirs, RA
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Shooshie
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by Shooshie »

comp15 wrote:The root cause stemmed from the Q88. I had to set it to USB MIDI out. Before that, the signal was returning to the MIDI controller and creating a duplicate signal. In other words, you guys got it right again.

thanks
Ha! I suspected the source was the MIDI keyboard, but not being able to see all the parameters, there wasn't any way to determine the exact cause. I figured you'd find it sooner or later. Glad you did!

Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
PoliticalBonobo
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Re: MIDI sounds strange after it's recorded

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

Hi, I'm hoping you can help me resolve the same issue. I have an Oxygen61 keyboard, USB only that is recording duplicate notes. The keyboard is set to Global Channel 1. I have the MIDI track routed to nothing and am recording notes just to test it. I get duplicate notes no matter what I do.

Also, I can't seem to get the 'Remove Duplicates' function to work. I highlight notes with overlapped duplicates, apply the command, and nothing happens.

Thanks in advance.
DP9.5 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo Quad FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 48gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive). VEP 6
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