SOLVED: Kontakt resets its volume as soon as record-enabled

[mhschmieder]

I initially thought this was just a problem with certain Spitfire Audio libraries so didn't report it, figuring it was something they'd figure out and post a fix to, as they do frequent updates.

Tonight though, I tried retracing with the new version of Orange Tree Samples EAG Steel Strings, and no matter what I do, Kontakt resets the output volume to 0 dB the instant I hoot record-enable on a MIDI track that has it set as its output target.

This is making it impossible for me to record, as I'm getting overs and have no way to stop that without having control over Kontakt's output volume (which I rarely set any higher than -6 dB).

Has anyone else experienced this?

I don't yet know if it's a Kontakt problem or specific to certain recent libraries. Maybe it's a Mavericks-specific bug and the developers aren't noticing it if they're only testing on Yosemite?

This is a showstopper for me at this point.

With the Spitfire stuff, it's the opposite problem in that many of their libraries come in at -48 dB during recording, but I dealt with that by adding vote gain and merging sound bytes.

Unfortunately, the Orange Tree library problem (really, it's the same problem; it's just that the developers made different choices about default volume) is the opposite in that I get distorted audio due to the output level being too hot after it ignores my plea to use -6 dB trim.

I don't believe for one minute this is a DP issue as there hasn't been a DP update in eons. As for Kontakt, I think it was quite recently updated but will have to check. And library-wise, the only recent Kontakt tracking I've done since early February is for updates and new libraries, as I've mostly been focused on live musician stuff vs. MIDI stuff, so it may just be that the problem is universal to Kontakt at the moment and I'm only seeing it when I use it.

I'll try a few other Kontakt libraries now, just to get an idea of whether this is the case.

[mhschmieder]

Crap; it happens on every library! Even if I remove my usual sequence start commands (MIDI CC 131 Reset All Controllers, All Notes Off, Mono-Pressure to 0, Pitch Bend to 0).

My last Kontakt update was on 19 January 2015, and Service Center shows no updates since that time. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a Mavericks-only issue, but I can't upgrade to Yosemite until I buy a new SSD and also until I finish this album project.

[BKK-OZ]

Sounds like cc#7.

Go to:
Settings>instrument options>controller>uncheck 'accept standard controllers for volume and pan'

And see what happens.

[mhschmieder]

Yep; that was it.

The strange thing is that this was my first thought when the problem first came up after the January update to Kontakt, but I couldn't find that option anymore! I looked all over, but the interface had changed just enough that it wasn't where I last saw it (or in the manual as such).

I was most accustomed to setting this in the Sample Modeling libraries, through their specific interface, and even had notes in my VI cheat sheet to that effect.

I do seem to remember now that there were Release Notes and/or a Changelog mentioning that the default setting for CC7 and Panning had changed.

[mhschmieder]

Just to clarify, as I rushed the previous posting so I could close the browser and give DP all the CPU and memory (necessary for low buffer settings to not cause problems).

What I meant was that some of the libraries didn't seem to be providing me with the pop-up window for setting the Volume and Pan preferences, so I thought maybe it had been made into a global feature in Kontakt vs. per-library, then wondered why I still couldn't find it.

It appears that there was some bootstrapping issue with the latest Kontakt version on my Mavericks system, because the settings window now pops up every time. It appeared to be going BEHIND the main Kontakt window before, so I thought the feature was removed.

At any rate, I successfully re-tracked the Orange Tree Samples EAG Steel String parts after getting new settings that I like (and this is a HUGE improvement over the old EAG engine, with much more control over realistic playing nuances, so many kudos to Greg of Orange Tree), and also the Spitfire Audio tracks from the Andy Findon Kits (Parts One and Two).

Although this is a separate issue, the entire Andy Findon Part Two seems to have a volume issue, so I expect Spitfire will issue an update soon. This is the library named Spitfire PP019 Andy Findon Kitbag.

I didn't recheck them all, but at the very least the Panpipe Low patch required being boosted by +12 dB inside Kontakt and another 3 dB inside DP (I am mono-summing the stereo instance as I don't trust mono VI instances, or otherwise would have added another full 6 dB inside DP), to get to an average recording level of between -18 dB to -24 dB (my usual working level).

Not to get too far off-topic, but I need to add a post about these marvelous libraries, as they completely leave all the others in the dust in terms of musicality, being true to traditional playing styles, etc. Even Tarilonte's work for Best Service doesn't quite match these libraries, where there is overlap. Mostly ethnic winds, so far.

[mhschmieder]

Actually, part of the problem with EEG Strawberry (different from the problems with the other libraries mentioned earlier) was that I didn't realize I hadn't deleted and re-added the library inside the Kontakt instance since the update.

Usually, when a library has a major update, you get a pale lemon background with few if any controls, so you realize you need to reload it by first removing it. For some reason though, most of the new interface painted itself, and since I haven't been opening my MIDI projects very often this calendar year, I just assumed I had already reset that instance to be current.

So the bootstrapping issue is hard to fully understand in terms of what causes it, but the solution is quite trivial and easy to comprehend. This explains why clicking on the upper left icon in the library interface wasn't doing anything at first.

Again, I must stress that there were multiple problems going on, which is what led to so much confusion. Also, not every library provides access to the settings in the same spot and via the same mechanism, but my main problem was that my confidence was blown due to multiple issues and so I thought there had been another problematic Kontakt release (like the one last February).

[dbender]

Sounds like cc#7.

Go to:
Settings>instrument options>controller>uncheck 'accept standard controllers for volume and pan'

And see what happens.

Could you or someone please clarify ... where to do this? In DP or in Kontakt??
(Just checked Kontakt 5 and didn't see "Settings" only "Options" and there was nothing like the above there, and, don't have DP open now but isn't there only a "Preferences...." but not something called "Settings")

Thanks in advance

[BKK-OZ]

The setting is in Kontakt.

I think the button has a little wrench for an icon (not in front of my machine right now).

[dbender]

The setting is in Kontakt.

I think the button has a little wrench for an icon (not in front of my machine right now).

Thank you, found it after a bit more poking around.

[mhschmieder]

Yeah, the problem is that it isn't a global setting in Kontakt or something you set from the Kontakt interface, so it is up to each developer to expose it -- as well as HOW to expose it -- in the instrument GUI.

Usually -- but not always -- it is available through the wrench icon (when present) in the upper left corner. Sometimes there is a gear type icon for settings, in the same location (usually).

The problem is when a library updates, if you open a project that was already using the library and don't delete the Kontakt instance or the library present from that instance, the results can be inconsistent or unpredictable due to the complex nature of Kontakt scripting and how much of the old interface paints itself and/or makes its control points available.

As I rarely use stock settings, I tend to leave my VI instances in my projects rather than deleting them and re-adding them every time I need to re-render. I do disable EVERYTHING (VI's and plug-ins) when I close a DP project, but that's not enough for a full re-load if a library update happened that affected scripting-based stuff like the library's GUI.

[cleamon]

Yep; that was it.

The strange thing is that this was my first thought when the problem first came up after the January update to Kontakt, but I couldn't find that option anymore! I looked all over, but the interface had changed just enough that it wasn't where I last saw it (or in the manual as such).

I was most accustomed to setting this in the Sample Modeling libraries, through their specific interface, and even had notes in my VI cheat sheet to that effect.

I do seem to remember now that there were Release Notes and/or a Changelog mentioning that the default setting for CC7 and Panning had changed.

Must be more to it. I have the "accept standard controllers for Volume and Pan" checked (on all instruments I've looked at) and I don't have this problem. Kontakt 5 (full), DP8.06, OS/X 10.8.4