Creating MIDI Regions in Sequence Editor?

[Shooshie]

The Saved Times commands do catch controllers. No data is saved with the selection. In the SE, I select a track or any bit of a track, evoke my save time and it creates a time range selection, catching everything that's there in the track. All the grow selection commands work as you use them in your tip. The cool thing is that they hold no data, unlike clippings. Say I have a French Hirn and Clarinet doubling a melody with controllers each on their own track. I make a time range selection and save it. If later in the cue I want to use the clarinet playing the same melody solo, I select the clarinet track, invoke my saved time by name and limit the selection to only clarinet, copy and paste to the second location. Works even better for standard song forms. Remembered Times are a temporary time range selection, they are overwritten next time you use the command.

Selection bounds works here.

You can check this out, but I'm sure you've got your method hard wired to your brain by now, so why change?


Frank Ferrucci

I had to try it to remember why I chose not to use Remembered Times or Selection Bounds. I did try them years ago, but there was something that made them not work for me. Now I remember. I work in the MIDI Graphic Editor (now just called the MIDI Editor). I keep a lot of tracks open at once, so that I can see them all, overlaid atop each other.

When you use Remembered times, you click CONTROL-R to store the selection in memory. Then you click OPTION-SHIFT-S to apply the selection in memory to the current tracks. And that's the problem. It applies to ALL the open tracks in the MIDI Editor. Naturally, that doesn't help me any. I don't want all the tracks selected. I only want the controller data added to the current note selection in the one track that I'm working on. Selection Bounds works the exact same way as Remembered times, except that you don't have to set the memory first.

However, when I tried it in the Sequence Editor, it actually kept to the track where the original selection was. So, that's a valid method for the Sequence Editor. It also will work if there is only one track open in the MIDI Editor. But if you use multiple tracks open all the time, as I usually do, this just won't work.

Still, it's a good alternative method, and certainly a good method for the Sequence Editor. I should list it as an easy method for that window. The best part about using it is that the commands are already set up by default. You don't have to add any commands to make it work.

But if you work with multiple tracks open in the MIDI Editor, as I do, you'll need to use the method I described in the Tips Sheet, or else you'll be selecting all the open tracks. However, there is a reason people should know it, even in the MIDI Editor: my method requires 2 or more tracks be open. When you've only got one track open, you can use the Remembered Times method, and it will work like a charm, without having to open another track.

Thanks for reminding me about it. I really think it should be listed as an alternate for the Sequence Editor, and for the one-track MIDI editor, and I'll add that to the tip.

One other factor: the method in the tip is faster. Without changing your modifier keys, it's just up-arrow/down-arrow. Literally a fraction of a second. It's fast enough that I don't even think about it when I do it. The selection is just there. The Remembered Times method requires two separate commands with separate modifier keys. That's not a big deal, I know, but since I'm doing those kinds of selections literally as many as a hundred times in a session, it adds up, not so much in time as in wrist movement. Again, not a big deal, but it is a consideration. You could always change the keyboard commands to make it just "click-click."

Shooshie
PS: Someday, MOTU's going to give us the conversion command in a single click. Then all this will be irrelevant! I'm going to hope for DP9. I'll be sending it to them again, soon.

[Shooshie]

One other thing regarding the Sequence Editor. I don't use any commands for selecting controllers in the Sequence Editor, because I can invoke the I-Beam when dragging, and it selects everything in the range, within the one track.

If you want to select a range over multiple tracks (adjacent) in one stroke, hold down CONTROL-OPTION when dragging, and you will likewise select all events in a range, over multiple tracks. It will select everything (within the horizontal range) of each track you touch. You can't select, say, just the top two notes in the track. All notes in that timeline in each track that you touch will be selected. It's best just to try it to see the behavior I'm talking about. It's logical and makes sense, and is a good selection tool to know.

Given that tool option, which I wasn't thinking about when I wrote the previous post, I may not list the Remembered Times or Selection Bounds as an alternate for the Sequence Editor, but I definitely will list them as an alternate for when you're working on one track in the MIDI Graphic Editor. That's a good thing to remember!

Oh... and if you accidentally click with only the Option key down, you'll zoom out. Getting back to the the previous zoom levels is easy:

• COMMAND-[ [left bracket]

I say this, because it always frustrates me when I do that. I finally learned to use COMMAND-[ as the preferred method of getting back to where I was.

Shooshie

[frankf]

After all the discussion, I use the I Beam tool in the SE a lot. I don't use Remembered Times often, but I do use Saved Times feature. You need to have a track selected or some data in a track selected so the Saved Time "knows" into which track to place the selection in/out.

This thread started as a MIDI regions discussion which I assume contain data and has morphed to MIDI (or audio) selections discussion, the latter which do not deal with the clipboard and data.

Never can disagree with anyone using the MIDI editor, but I use it only on occasion. The Sequence editor is laid out like a score and Quickscribe, one track per line, which is how my brain is wired from forever. So I naturally favor it.


Frank Ferrucci

[FMiguelez]

How WOULD you fix that? Let's take a MIDI section in which there are some long piano phrases with continuous pedal. (and let's say it's full-range pedaling, not just on/off) In cutting stuff out, you have also cut out the pedal reset between chord changes. How would DP know what to do? How would it determine where to put the pedal release and depression? How would it recreate the half-pedaling you were doing originally?

And automation? Would it just ramp between the boundaries of the cut?

Give me an example of how other DAWs handle this, and a situation where it would work cleanly without your having to come back around and clean it up. With Lines Mode, it only takes a second to fix it, anyway. I usually get those kinds of things fixed very quickly, though if there are a lot of controllers, it gets exponentially harder and more time consuming.

I see the need for it; I just don't know how it might work in most cases.

So what do you think of my suggested fix, Shoosh?

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 30#p502103

[Shooshie]

How WOULD you fix that? Let's take a MIDI section in which there are some long piano phrases with continuous pedal. (and let's say it's full-range pedaling, not just on/off) In cutting stuff out, you have also cut out the pedal reset between chord changes. How would DP know what to do? How would it determine where to put the pedal release and depression? How would it recreate the half-pedaling you were doing originally?

And automation? Would it just ramp between the boundaries of the cut?

The fix is actually extremely simple, Shoosh.

I'm not a programmer, but I imagine the algorithm would be something like this:


- For every track in the current selection, take note of each automation parameter value that is allowed in the View Filter at the beginning and end of the selection.

------- If merging or pasting, DP should check if the automation parameters match (i.e., perhaps a source track had volume but the target track doesn't currently have any automation on it).
-If they don't match, insert the parameter automatically with the values from the source track.
- If they match, DP should insert in the target tracks whatever current value the automation parameters have 1 tick BEFORE and one tick AFTER the time range selection where the merging will take place.
--> Merge or paste

------ If snipping or inserting measures, DP should take note of any kind of automation allowed in the View Filter for every selected track, and insert whatever current value they have 1 tick before and 1 tick after the time range selection.
--> Snip or Insert Measure


That would take care of the unwanted messed-up ramps and automation-babysitting I've been complaining about.

There could even be an option to deal with sudden parameter jumps that might arise after any of those operations. It could be in a dialog box that pops just before confirming them, so the automation points could be joined smoothly. The option to include takes in selected tracks and closed folders should be here as well>

Create ramps to smooth automation points. Ramp length __ | __ | 001

Include takes in selected tracks
Include takes in tracks inside selected closed folders and subfolders

[...]

MOTU could easily fix this with a few lines of code WITHOUT having to deal with implementing regions at all.

It does sound simple, but I'm not sure it covers all kinds of situations, such as the pedal incident I described. Nevertheless, I don't expect something automatic like this to solve all problems. (and I like to feel needed at least some of the time! ) Otherwise, it looks like it covers most of the bases. Of course, I'm not really a programmer, either.

I think it's something that DP needs. If we could ever get the programmers interested in doing it, I'm pretty sure they'll come up with a good plan, whether it uses your idea or something else entirely. They usually do design things with a "think different" approach.

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. I was getting ready for the opera when I read it, and didn't feel like I had time to do it justice. When I got back, I got sidetracked answering Frank's post, and it was late, and I just finally had to go to bed. So thanks for reminding me. (The opera was great: La Boheme! Excellent production. Beautiful singing, gorgeous orchestra, fantastic seats! ...)

Shoosh

[frankf]

So how does it work in Song mode or when you drag a clipping into the same track(s)? If DP does something elegant with controllers in these cases, maybe it can be ported over? It's tedious, but I always take a snapshot before and after a "region" clipping I create


Frank Ferrucci

[deckard1]

Well...I have read and reread all of the excellent info written above and I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

No worries, though. I am very new to DP having worked with Logic for many years. Hopefully, one day I will comprehend what is written in the previous posts...and then some.

Thanks.