Conductor Track: Change Tempos-rough/fine [WORKAROUND!]

[stubbsonic]

Hi guys,

I was just adding a tempo ramp in a piece, and used the Change Tempo... command.

There are lots of odd meters in this section, switching between 5/8, 6/8, 7/8, and 7/4. The problem is that I can set the tempo change to rough, which is way too rough. The tempo changes happen in large steps roughly every measure. Or it can be made very fine which is about 10 tempo changes per 8th note.

I'd like a tempo change every 8th note, but couldn't figure out how to do that. I tried quantizing the tempo markings, but it just stacked up multiple tempo events on each and every 8th note. It's a long enough section that I'd hate to manually edit those.

BTW, I'm going to be sharing this as a SMF with others who work in different DAWs, and didn't want the density of tempo changes to be a problem with the other DAWs. Perhaps that is not an issue. Still, I'd be curious to know if there is an easy way to do this.

If not, FEATURE REQUEST: have a tempo density setting (in the tempo change window) that lets you set the resolution of tempo changes.

[bayswater]

The Fine setting is 12 tempo events per beat. So what if you set the tempo beats to dotted whole notes, create the tempo events, then change it to eighth notes? You ought to end up with one tempo event per eight note. Or something to that effect. I haven't tried it.

[stubbsonic]

That's a good idea, though I'd rather not have to change a bunch of tempo markings, either.

If they had a rough as one tempo per measure, and a medium of 1 tempo per beat, and fine as it is, that would make things less rough.

Also, if they allowed tempo events to be thinned that also would be nice.

Another alternative would be a quantize that removes any events (including tempo) that are off grid by some amount.

[Shooshie]

It's hard to see at first, but there is never any need for tempo markings to occur at a higher density than your fastest note (possibly controller?) value. Usually you can get by with even less, but if your fastest note value is an 8th, there is no need to change tempos on the intermediate 16th, where no note resides. The space between notes is the only unit of time that needs to change. That wasn't a question, but it's helpful to keep that in mind when trying to set tempo densities.

The "coarse/fine" options seem to be holdovers from an early era, before graphic editors. Instead of that, there should be an empty field followed by the words "per tempo unit." Adding a number should set the density, precisely, though a default should be present for those who don't know what density they want. We should suggest that.

Also, some of the dialogs need updating. There needs to be a tempo option in Thin Continuous Data. Also, maybe tempo should be present in the options for changing and reassigning continuous data. And in the Change Tempo dialog there should be a "smooth from [percentage change] to [percentage change]" just for convenience' sake.

I'd better not get started redesigning dialogs! There are probably many improvements that could be added, though I have to admit that most of our dialogs are pretty good.

Shooshie

[stubbsonic]

Yes, that's my point exactly!

Having tempos only changing every measure is probably fine when the tempos aren't changing much. But when they are ramping up pretty steeply, you want them to at least go at the rate that your notes are going.

Our basic note grid is the 8th note through the whole section. So having the tempos follow that makes sense.

A side question is, if I export this chunk as an SMF, will having 12 f'n tempos per 8th note cause any problems for another DAW (like logic)?

[Shooshie]

You could set up the Search grid to select all tempo events between 8th notes, then delete them, leaving the ones that fall on the 8th notes.

On the other hand, I doubt that the extra tempo events would cause any problems in other DAWs or scoring apps.

Shooshie

[stubbsonic]

I REALLY need to explore that search function more!!!

Thanks, Shooshie!!

[stubbsonic]

Yea, the search function worked.

It wasn't especially intuitive. Took a fair amount of experimentation, then an invert selection, then manually de-selecting meter changes, but ultimately I got it all to work.

It was weird they way it interpreted my grid settings, but after a few tries it did what was needed.

[Shooshie]

Yea, the search function worked.

It wasn't especially intuitive. Took a fair amount of experimentation, then an invert selection, then manually de-selecting meter changes, but ultimately I got it all to work.

It was weird they way it interpreted my grid settings, but after a few tries it did what was needed.

It gets easier. MUCH easier. Part of the allure of Search is saving your searches. Sooner or later you'll be needing to do the same thing again. If you've already got it, it almost feels like cheating, it's so fast, and what it can pick out is so detailed. Complicated selections can be created this way.

Were Tempo events not in the Search list? I don't remember exactly what is in the list, though I know it's not complete. I've suggested some improvements to that, but never seen the suggestions come to fruition. Maybe I should keep bugging them.

Usually there's a fairly simple way to do it. One thing that might have sped up your search would have been to double-click the tempos FIRST, then search, having it base the search upon the current selection. If that's working right, you would not have had to deselect the meters. Inverse selections are often helpful, too. If it's taking too many steps, then there's usually an easier way.

You probably noticed on the grid that there are ways to make the selection go clear to the next grid point, or to the point — but not including the point. It's important to know that difference, too.

Lastly, there's the Boolean thing: searches containing and/or/all/not... suddenly I don't remember all the Boolean terms, but you probably do. You can keep adding sections to the search until you hone it down about right.

Again, save it (with short description in title), and next time you don't have to construct it!

Shoosh

[Tritonemusic]

Part of the allure of Search is saving your searches. Sooner or later you'll be needing to do the same thing again.

Glad you brought that up. I've really got to start saving my searches. I thought to myself, "I'll never need that again." Then it happens time and again. Thanks for the reminder, Shoosh.

[Shooshie]

Part of the allure of Search is saving your searches. Sooner or later you'll be needing to do the same thing again.

Glad you brought that up. I've really got to start saving my searches. I thought to myself, "I'll never need that again." Then it happens time and again. Thanks for the reminder, Shoosh.

I save them all and maintain my saved searches. I've got quite a few now, though I once lost them all and had to start over. I'm always amazed to find what I'm looking for in my saved list, after being certain that I could never have done that before, much less saved a search for it!

Shoosh

[stubbsonic]

Tempos were in the list. For some reason, I was not getting the results I needed from the grid, but I did get the opposite of what I needed. So I went back to the conductor and tried inverting my selection-- which is what ended up selecting all the meter changes.

Perhaps if I had planned ahead and put a view filter on, I might have been able to prevent that. Anyway, it all worked out.

However, this feature (especially with the way that grid works) has opened the door to the Room of Requirement (if I may dare to use a nerdy Harry Potter reference). I can now see doing some really nice special MIDI mojo.