Intra-note dynamics?

[burnley]

[Please bear with me, as I am somewhat new to MIDI]

As you all know, there are many styles of music in which it’s pretty common to change dynamics within a single note. I am having trouble figuring out how to approximate these kinds of intra-note dynamics in DP (or within MIDI in general).

Of course, I could generate audio and simply put in a volume curve, but it would be easier and generally more realistic sounding to do it with a velocity curve within the note.

Is this possible?

[bayswater]

There is no such thing as a velocity curve within a note. It only effects the note onset -- it has one value for the note. But sometimes the note-off velocity can be used to affect the way a note sounds when you release a key. A lot of other controllers will affect a note while it is playing, and volume is one of them.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

This is a non issue. It is, as the o/p states, the result of his "inexperience" with MIDI. Volume and expression cc#7 and cc#11, respectively) are two viable "solutions."

[stubbsonic]

This is usually handled within the instrument or sound module.

The most common way notes are contoured is via ENVELOPES and LFOs.

You can create an envelope shape that has an ATTACK, DECAY (where you set how long of a time it takes for the note to come on, and drop down) SUSTAIN (where you sent the sustaining level of the sound after the attack and decay are finished), and RELEASE (how long of a time it takes for the sound to die down after the key is released).

You can use that envelope to control Amplitude (volume), Filter (basically, tone), Pitch, and other qualities.

Sometimes note velocity is used to control the envelope depth.

If you read or watch some materials on basic synth 101 you can learn about all that stuff.

As MLC suggests, if you just want to create a stream of automation that controls the sound of a track, you can use CC#7 and CC#11, but again, the instrument or module must be programmed to respond. (Usually CC7 is responded to unconditionally)

[HCMarkus]

Depending on the nature of the sound, certain controllers are more effective than others. For wind instruments, nothing beats a physical Breath Controller (MIDI CC2 is the designated Continuous Controller number) and for organ, foot pedal (Usually Expression CC11) is tops. Cross-fading of samples, often controlled by CC11 or CC1, can provide dynamic and timbre changes within a note, leading to more expressive performances.

I'm still hoping DP will implement a MIDI plug-in lag/envelope for continuous controller information, as it would make it very simple to effectively use breath control with non-wind sounds, like strings.

Anybody 'round here programmed a Kontakt patch that has an attack/release parameter for CC input?

[Shooshie]

Velocity is a keyboard thing. Pianos strike their notes, then the string does the rest until you release the damper to stop the string. MIDI keyboards are about the same; you strike the note, and a program in the synth or sampler shapes it until it stops, or until you release the key. The only thing measured in your keypress is "velocity," or the speed of the key at the time the note is triggered. That one event sets in motion this whole note-shaping program.

That is usually called the "envelope," and a typical envelope has different rates and timing for the attack, sustain, decay and release. (ASDR curves) But the programming of those individual parts of the envelope is done in advance, and usually applies to every note whose key you press. So, you have only ONE control over an ASDR envelope: Velocity. The velocity with which you strike the key determines the strength of the envelope.

That was the bane of MIDI for years and years, but there were instruments that took advantage of other MIDI controllers: Breath Control (BC), which is Continuous Controller #2; and Expression, CC#11, more often used with pedals and sliders. There is also MIDI Volume control (not to be confused with audio volume), but I don't use it in MIDI, because the Mixing Board uses CC#7 (MIDI Volume) to run its fader automation in MIDI channels.

So that leaves you with CC#11 Expression, and CC#2 Breath Control. It's easy to use those, but it requires some hardware, unless you want to draw it yourself with DP's MIDI Drawing Tools. I find the tools excellent for editing, and maybe for inserting a few extra controllers, but for full-scale phrases, you'll want some kind of hardware that plays MIDI controllers.

The contenders are:
Faders: (my Kurzweil 2600 has a bank of 8 physical faders, switchable to 32 (four banks of 8 fader settings), which can be used for playing and editing continuous data

Knobs: I have a Behringer UMA25S USB keyboard with just 25 notes (keys), but it has 8 knobs that are easily assignable to any controllers. This keyboard can be used from a shoulder-strap, such that your fingers fit between the knobs, making expression easy and musical for up to four controllers at a time:

• 

Pedals: My pedal board is a Roland FC300. It's got 12 switch pedals (on/off) and 2 expression pedals (full range of 128 values). Each can be assigned to any controllers, and you can store 5 banks of assignments.

• 

Breath Control: (Shooshie playing WX5) This can cover a lot of territory. There are simple headsets that you blow into and send BC with your keyboard, so you play notes as you would on any keyboard, but the BC is added with the headset. Those can be hard to find, but I think there is at least one being made these days. Other forms include the Akai EWI (electronic wind instrument), and the Yamaha WX series (WX5, WX11, WX7) which are also woodwind instruments, but which are a little more friendly to actual woodwind players. The Yamaha WX5 is my choice. I've had two WX7s (no longer made), and now I use the WX5, which is the best MIDI wind instrument I've ever used.

• 

There are other devices that can send continuous data: ribbon controllers, and a variety of instruments and gadgets, even apps for mobile devices like iPads or iPhones. Digital Performer also includes a lesser-known method: Custom Consoles. You can create a custom console with a fader or knob that sends continuous data to the MIDI channel or track of your choice. They are a little touchy to set up, but once you get them working, they work forever.

Below is a Custom Console set up in Digital Performer to control sustain pedals (CC#64) on a Yamaha Disklavier Grand Piano. I also use it to track down pedaling errors. It shows me the pedal positions in each track for 5 grand pianos.

• 

Now that we've talked about some of the options for controlling continuous data, we'll look next at the data itself. But I'll have to save that for tomorrow or sometime. Time's short!

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Actually, it occurred to me that I have some posts in the DP Tips Sheet thread, and a YouTube video that might help you with continuous data. These were not made specifically for your questions, but if you watch the video you WILL see some work with controllers.

YouTube Video:
Using Expression in Digital Performer
Skip the first 2 minutes or so to get to the relevant information. Watch it full-screen so that you can see the details.

Here's the Tips Sheet post on Control point editing in DP's MIDI Edit Window.

And here's one on Working with Selections in DP. This is a method for selecting control points that go with notes or phrases in the MIDI Edit Window. Since the control points appear in a different part of the window, how do you select both at the same time, same range? There is a quick, easy way to do it, which I describe in the post. You actually see me doing it at 6:47 on the video above.

That's a lot of info. I think you'll know more than any fledgling MIDI virtuoso ought to be trusted with if you assimilate all that!

Shooshie

[burnley]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and informative replies!

Shooshie, you get the gold star!! I will check out all of your links, suggestions, tutorials, etc.

A quick search shows that there are indeed several headsets out there that you can blow into to enhance expression. There is even a USB tube controller that appeals to me as a melodica player. The video review by TORLEY is quite entertaining on this one: http://www.kvraudio.com/product/usb-mid ... -tecontrol

[stubbsonic]

There was a pretty long thread about breath controllers. I have the TEControl and really like it. I also play melodica. It is not the same feel, exactly, but when you get it adjusted, it provides that same satisfying dynamic control.

They also just released a new version with a lip/bite sensor, which adds another dimension. I'm bummed I got mine before this was released. I'd have much preferred it!

http://tecontrol.se/products/usb-MIDI-b ... controller

[Shooshie]

There was a pretty long thread about breath controllers. I have the TEControl and really like it. I also play melodica. It is not the same feel, exactly, but when you get it adjusted, it provides that same satisfying dynamic control.

They also just released a new version with a lip/bite sensor, which adds another dimension. I'm bummed I got mine before this was released. I'd have much preferred it!

http://tecontrol.se/products/usb-MIDI-b ... controller

THAT is the one I was trying to think of, but I couldn't remember the name of it, so I just posted — potluck —whatever came up on Amazon. Most of the things you see in my posts — pictures, quotes, URLs, etc. — I keep stored in Yojimbo, an organizer app. That wasn't in it. I'll add it now. Thanks!

BTW: obviously, the more capabilities of a breath controller, the more you'll get out of it, but any one is better than none. I encourage everyone who plays orchestral VIs to get and use a breath controller for making "real" phrases. There's just nothing else that quite does it.

Shoosh

[burnley]

There was a pretty long thread about breath controllers. I have the TEControl and really like it. I also play melodica. It is not the same feel, exactly, but when you get it adjusted, it provides that same satisfying dynamic control.

They also just released a new version with a lip/bite sensor, which adds another dimension. I'm bummed I got mine before this was released. I'd have much preferred it!

http://tecontrol.se/products/usb-MIDI-b ... controller

TORLEY actually suggested a bite sensor in his video review. Glad to hear that the TEC were apparently listening.

[minimidi]

There was a pretty long thread about breath controllers. I have the TEControl and really like it. I also play melodica. It is not the same feel, exactly, but when you get it adjusted, it provides that same satisfying dynamic control.

They also just released a new version with a lip/bite sensor, which adds another dimension. I'm bummed I got mine before this was released. I'd have much preferred it!

http://tecontrol.se/products/usb-MIDI-b ... controller

TORLEY actually suggested a bite sensor in his video review. Glad to hear that the TEC were apparently listening.

I actually have both breath controllers. They work great and are perfect complements to VIs from Samplemodeling and others. Recently this guy posted a good video with the new model:

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2015/ ... our-music/

[SMS]

Simple solution-

Use any controller you have (mod wheel? Volume slider?) and remap it to CC#11 (expression) You can use a Console in DP to do the remapping if need be. This is what CC11 is designed for- that way you can still use CC7 for mix levels and retain the Expression for "inter note" volume changes.

One way I use for orchestral parts is to map the pitch wheel to CC11- the spring-loaded feature gives you a 'nominal' volume from which it's easy to add/subtract- pretty easy to perform the dynamics this way.

[bayswater]

Expression for "inter note" volume changes.

"Intra-note", I think.