Vienna Ensemble Pro will add MAS support !!

[mhschmieder]

Quite a surprise -- now I'm more inclined to finally start using it. I have only used it in experiments thus far; never in a production project. I have the Pro edition too; I considered it a long-term investment as VSL is extremely loyal to their customers. I will "grow" into it over time.

[toodamnhip]

Quite a surprise -- now I'm more inclined to finally start using it. I have only used it in experiments thus far; never in a production project. I have the Pro edition too; I considered it a long-term investment as VSL is extremely loyal to their customers. I will "grow" into it over time.

One of the continual weaknesses of Digital performer is the way it handles virtual instruments. VE pro excels in this area and is way way way more efficient on any given processor. The only bug I have really been bothered about in VE is a synchronization buG where when you TRIGGER a drumbeat IN TOONTRACKS, or trigger any looped, tempo based rhythmic pattern,,,,with the VE buffers above zero, the drumbeat will play out of sync until brought into MIDI in dp . Also, LA scoring strings tends to get stuck notes in the pro more then inside of Digital performer.I hope the new edition using MAS fixes this.

[rikp]

Any idea when this will be available? I have a four computer setup running VE Pro with DP8. Working fine, so maybe I should not mess with my setup. Play does cause DP to crash sometimes and I would like to fix that! My solution was to just put play on its own computer with VE Pro and no instances of Kontakt or VE in the metaframe. Seems to be working!

Rik

[buhardilla]

Any idea when this will be available?
Rik

We don't have much news, only the post by Paul Steinbauer at VSL forums:
https://vsl.co.at/community/posts/t3903 ... post234927

[bralston]

VEPro 5 will have an MAS version. I am not on their Beta team but they sent me the beta version to try out at NAMM. I am pretty impressed thus far. I have a rather large template so I have not run it though the complete ringer yet. So don't ask me yet if such and such is working. But first thoughts are it is stable thus far. Routing MIDI to it makes my template so much more clear than having to use Event Inputs. This was the biggest problem they solved with this in my opinion. The AU spec and not allowing more than 1 MIDI port (16 channels) per instrument caused it. MAS does not have that limitation. This is mostly why they developed for MAS. Also, the timing does seem tighter as he said. After loading new MAS VEPro instruments in my V-Rack, it took me an evening to re-route all of my MIDI tracks to new instances of the VEPro instruments. Some on my MacPro outside of DP. Some on MacMini Slaves on the network. But all appeared. All were right there in the MIDI out list…all were labeled clearly. All worked just fine. Both locally and over the network. Offline bounce now works too, since that was a limitation of the Event Input work-around. It should be out any day now.

One thing…your AU versions of VEPro (or VST if you were using that)…will still be checked off and enabled alongside the MAS version when you restart DP after install. Best to first go in and uncheck them in your plug-in prefs…so only the MAS version will run. This effectively turns off the old routings (making them italicized) since the plugin is no longer there. Otherwise you will have both listed in your VSL Instrument folder and won't know which is which. And also the older routings will be enabled and selectable…which will get confusing when switching over. Just don't "clear missing" when your project file loads and you will see the italicized, unconnected link of where you routed them to before. If you were lucky enough to rename the instrument and Event Inputs with their VEPro channel number (which I had done)…this made it easy for me to re-link the MIDI tracks to the same locations in the VEPro server as I could see that channel number italicized…and all I had to do was reconnect it via the MAS plugin instead. I never once changed my VEPro server side setup at all.

[toodamnhip]

VEPro 5 will have an MAS version. I am not on their Beta team but they sent me the beta version to try out at NAMM. I am pretty impressed thus far. I have a rather large template so I have not run it though the complete ringer yet. So don't ask me yet if such and such is working. But first thoughts are it is stable thus far. Routing MIDI to it makes my template so much more clear than having to use Event Inputs. This was the biggest problem they solved with this in my opinion. The AU spec and not allowing more than 1 MIDI port (16 channels) per instrument caused it. MAS does not have that limitation. This is mostly why they developed for MAS. Also, the timing does seem tighter as he said. After loading new MAS VEPro instruments in my V-Rack, it took me an evening to re-route all of my MIDI tracks to new instances of the VEPro instruments. Some on my MacPro outside of DP. Some on MacMini Slaves on the network. But all appeared. All were right there in the MIDI out list…all were labeled clearly. All worked just fine. Both locally and over the network. Offline bounce now works too, since that was a limitation of the Event Input work-around. It should be out any day now.

One thing…your AU versions of VEPro (or VST if you were using that)…will still be checked off and enabled alongside the MAS version when you restart DP after install. Best to first go in and uncheck them in your plug-in prefs…so only the MAS version will run. This effectively turns off the old routings (making them italicized) since the plugin is no longer there. Otherwise you will have both listed in your VSL Instrument folder and won't know which is which. And also the older routings will be enabled and selectable…which will get confusing when switching over. Just don't "clear missing" when your project file loads and you will see the italicized, unconnected link of where you routed them to before. If you were lucky enough to rename the instrument and Event Inputs with their VEPro channel number (which I had done)…this made it easy for me to re-link the MIDI tracks to the same locations in the VEPro server as I could see that channel number italicized…and all I had to do was reconnect it via the MAS plugin instead. I never once changed my VEPro server side setup at all.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that “better timing” means looped audio in VE Pro plays IN SYNC when VE’s buffers are above zero...

[Shooshie]

Oh, the things this could fix. I've always thought the MAS plugin format was the unsung hero of the plugins. MOTU Symphonic Instrument and Mach Five benefited from about 64 outputs, plus the one in the mixing board, so that was a huge benefit for people using large orchestral templates and sectional stems.

I believe that MOTU's MAS plugins will probably have better timing for auto delay compensation, plus the ability to do true bus-assignable sidechain operations, rather than the extensive workarounds required by some Waves products. MAS and AU were like Beta and VHS video formats. MAS was the format of choice IMO, but it couldn't be the default for so many brands of DAWs and plugins, as it was not the popular choice.

This is all my speculation, and not based on any recent data. Time will tell.

Shooshie

[Steve Steele]

I can't believe I'm reading this. This is the best thing to happen to my template in... forever! I always wondered if MAS had the single MIDI port limitation. Guess not. Vienna must know how frustrated DP users were that we're tied to Apple's AU, but we didn't have to be with just a little MAS port.

Wow. No more Event Input. This will make for a better setup of LASS in VEPro, not to mention all my VSL stuff.

Now, if MOTU would give us Note Expressions (not that I really care), I could tell all of my Cubase friends to bite me.

DP rules again!

[toodamnhip]

The only thing I worry about is that they continue to support MAS in the long run,

[elcappn]

VEPro 5 will have an MAS version. I am not on their Beta team but they sent me the beta version to try out at NAMM. I am pretty impressed thus far. I have a rather large template so I have not run it though the complete ringer yet. So don't ask me yet if such and such is working. But first thoughts are it is stable thus far. Routing MIDI to it makes my template so much more clear than having to use Event Inputs. This was the biggest problem they solved with this in my opinion. The AU spec and not allowing more than 1 MIDI port (16 channels) per instrument caused it. MAS does not have that limitation. This is mostly why they developed for MAS. Also, the timing does seem tighter as he said. After loading new MAS VEPro instruments in my V-Rack, it took me an evening to re-route all of my MIDI tracks to new instances of the VEPro instruments. Some on my MacPro outside of DP. Some on MacMini Slaves on the network. But all appeared. All were right there in the MIDI out list…all were labeled clearly. All worked just fine. Both locally and over the network. Offline bounce now works too, since that was a limitation of the Event Input work-around. It should be out any day now.

One thing…your AU versions of VEPro (or VST if you were using that)…will still be checked off and enabled alongside the MAS version when you restart DP after install. Best to first go in and uncheck them in your plug-in prefs…so only the MAS version will run. This effectively turns off the old routings (making them italicized) since the plugin is no longer there. Otherwise you will have both listed in your VSL Instrument folder and won't know which is which. And also the older routings will be enabled and selectable…which will get confusing when switching over. Just don't "clear missing" when your project file loads and you will see the italicized, unconnected link of where you routed them to before. If you were lucky enough to rename the instrument and Event Inputs with their VEPro channel number (which I had done)…this made it easy for me to re-link the MIDI tracks to the same locations in the VEPro server as I could see that channel number italicized…and all I had to do was reconnect it via the MAS plugin instead. I never once changed my VEPro server side setup at all.

Thanks for the quick report, Brian. I do have one question though if you don't mind checking. Do we still need to run VEP instances set to Real-time or can we use Pre-gen mode with the MAS version?

[Steve Steele]

The only thing I worry about is that they continue to support MAS in the long run,

I think Vienna must take DP users pretty seriously to add a new and fairly unused plugin format to a program as popular as VEPro. If it's stable and complete, there shouldn't be much left to do in the future. I have a feeling it all got started because of that DP/Event Input issue. And if they added support for MAS because of that, then it probably wasn't that hard of a port. I don't know but the MAS plugin format probably doesn't get updated too often other than for OS updates, DP updates or for when a new MOTU app like Machfive comes out. I could be totally wrong but I think they'll support it as long as DP needs it.

Just out of curiosity I'm kinda interested in seeing the MAS developer update history.

[bralston]

Chris....I believe still Real time. I will check...but can't till late tonight.

[elcappn]

Thanks Brian.

[Michael Canavan]

The only thing I worry about is that they continue to support MAS in the long run,

I think Vienna must take DP users pretty seriously to add a new and fairly unused plugin format to a program as popular as VEPro. If it's stable and complete, there shouldn't be much left to do in the future. I have a feeling it all got started because of that DP/Event Input issue. And if they added support for MAS because of that, then it probably wasn't that hard of a port. I don't know but the MAS plugin format probably doesn't get updated too often other than for OS updates, DP updates or for when a new MOTU app like Machfive comes out. I could be totally wrong but I think they'll support it as long as DP needs it.

Just out of curiosity I'm kinda interested in seeing the MAS developer update history.

I can't say anything that isn't just conjecture, but it seems to me that MAS (MOTU Audio System) is the name MOTU gave to their underlying audio and plug in architecture. If you right click on the DP8 app you will see in the DP8/Contents/MacOS/Plugins/MAS folder a MAS AudioUnit Support.bundle and a MAS VST Support.bundle. Basically my guess is MAS is and was MOTU's proprietary plug in format. In 2000 or so we had pretty much every major player with their own format, Pro Tools with RTAS, DP with MAS, and Steinberg with VST. At that point only VST was a publicly available format for hosting plug ins. As a side note, the slow adoption was in part due to Steinberg's poor VST hosting documentation, no surprise considering they make Cubase and Nuendo.


Basically, MAS is not just a plug in format, it's the way DP communicates plug ins in the first place. I would guess coding for MAS is in some ways slightly easier and other ways more difficult, probably adding better integration and stability, not unlike Ableton Live's embedded third party instruments and FX from AAS, Softube and Cytomic.

On this note, Speakerphone in the latest update is a MAS plug in pretty much only, they don't recommend using the VST or AU version. <--- I've been investigating Novation Automap, and this was a somewhat frustrating thing on some levels, but hopefully DP9's new learn controller features offer some of what Automaped plug ins do.

[James Steele]

I think Vienna must take DP users pretty seriously to add a new and fairly unused plugin format to a program as popular as VEPro.

I think it's because VEPro is a tool that holds special appeal to film/TV composers who by and large are far more likely to be using DP because of its unique abilities in this area.