NAMM 2015: DP9

[billf]

Aah... the Received Text... of 1s and 0s... the sacred DP9. Drool...

Funny you should say that, Billy, as whilst I've been using the word since high school, I often find it not "listed". My Mac's dictionary doesn't seem to have it, for example.

If something's discursive or a discursion, (even spell check corrects it to "discussion"), it's a deviation from the path / train of thought / focus at hand. It's a beautiful, simple word that to me has obvious onomatopoeia-esque properties.

Perhaps it's a Kings English versus American Mangled English issue where American dictionaries somehow insist that the correct word is "discourse." Our dictionaries also insist that the words such as "color" contain a useless letter "u" so we have given that letter over to the tweet generation for ample usage in texting.

It reminds me of a story. When I was in college (aka university) on one of my final papers I had used the word "whilst." Properly. In the US, whilst is not commonly used, even in formal settings. But I felt the word fit into the context of what I wrote, so I used it. The professor in charge of reviewing the paper was incensed, and wrote in big red letters on the paper "the proper word to use is 'while!!!'" and downgraded the paper.

As it cost me in my overall grade in that course, I appealed it to the Dean's office, and won. The grade was restored, and all ended well. But it taught me that there are subtle regional variants in english.

[musicman691]

Aah... the Received Text... of 1s and 0s... the sacred DP9. Drool...

Funny you should say that, Billy, as whilst I've been using the word since high school, I often find it not "listed". My Mac's dictionary doesn't seem to have it, for example.

If something's discursive or a discursion, (even spell check corrects it to "discussion"), it's a deviation from the path / train of thought / focus at hand. It's a beautiful, simple word that to me has obvious onomatopoeia-esque properties.

Perhaps it's a Kings English versus American Mangled English issue where American dictionaries somehow insist that the correct word is "discourse." Our dictionaries also insist that the words such as "color" contain a useless letter "u" so we have given that letter over to the tweet generation for ample usage in texting.

It reminds me of a story. When I was in college (aka university) on one of my final papers I had used the word "whilst." Properly. In the US, whilst is not commonly used, even in formal settings. But I felt the word fit into the context of what I wrote, so I used it. The professor in charge of reviewing the paper was incensed, and wrote in big red letters on the paper "the proper word to use is 'while!!!'" and downgraded the paper.

As it cost me in my overall grade in that course, I appealed it to the Dean's office, and won. The grade was restored, and all ended well. But it taught me that there are subtle regional variants in english.

As is often said: Americans and British are two people divided by a common language. Not to mention the regional variants in word usage here in the US alone.

[Shooshie]

... On the other hand, it was nearly impossible to hear it played by a string orchestra without your mind adding the lyrics to the jingle.

Shooshie

true enough!!

You really didn't realize it, did you? It's one of the later rounds within the canon. They keep building up, adding more rhythm, higher harmony, and the apex of the music is the melody of the Burger King jingle. After that round, the canon winds down as the parts play out. The jingle's tune is a literal quote for its first 8 beats. It uses a modern pop progression rather than the Canon's I-V-vi-iii-IV-I-IV-V progression, which obviously would take too long, and had too many minor chords for an upbeat teenage girl singing "hold the pickles."

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Perhaps it's a Kings English versus American Mangled English issue where American dictionaries somehow insist that the correct word is "discourse." Our dictionaries also insist that the words such as "color" contain a useless letter "u" so we have given that letter over to the tweet generation for ample usage in texting.

It reminds me of a story. When I was in college (aka university) on one of my final papers I had used the word "whilst." Properly. In the US, whilst is not commonly used, even in formal settings. But I felt the word fit into the context of what I wrote, so I used it. The professor in charge of reviewing the paper was incensed, and wrote in big red letters on the paper "the proper word to use is 'while!!!'" and downgraded the paper.

As it cost me in my overall grade in that course, I appealed it to the Dean's office, and won. The grade was restored, and all ended well. But it taught me that there are subtle regional variants in english.

And unsubtle professors. I always wondered how those guys got their jobs, and moreover, how they got tenure. Some of the dumbest tools I ever knew were the guys charged with teaching me arts, letters, and sciences. You could tell the smart ones without even testing them. They were the ones who were either miserable or hilarious. They were trapped in a work environment where, if they wanted to advance, they were expected to play political games with these people who had long since forgotten why they were there, and whose lives had been wholly consumed by conquering all challengers at University politics. So, the smart ones either developed a sense of humor or got a job with their father-in-law's insurance firm.

For the first 30 years of my life, I was aiming for one of those jobs, then when I got a taste of it, I realized it was the last thing on earth I wanted to do, which was about the time I had discovered MIDI. I trimmed the sails, set the rudder for the professional world, and never looked back.

Oh, I'm being hard on Academia; I know it can't help what it has become. It's like a caged animal, and I'm like the visitor to the circus who can't resist poking it with a stick through the bars of its cage.

Shoosh

[williemyers]

You really didn't realize it, did you?

[monkey man]

To say I agree, Shoosh, would be too much as you've headed into territory that's been my pet peeve for decades - the apathy, insularity and peer-driven ignorance that's suffocated real progress in the areas of science I'm most passionate about.

I therefore won't say I agree. Instead, I'll say that IMHO you hit the proverbial on the head.

Perhaps it's a Kings English versus American Mangled English issue where American dictionaries somehow insist that the correct word is "discourse."

Genius.

Our dictionaries also insist that the words such as "color" contain a useless letter "u" so we have given that letter over to the tweet generation for ample usage in texting.

Ha!

It reminds me of a story. When I was in college (aka university) on one of my final papers I had used the word "whilst." Properly. In the US, whilst is not commonly used, even in formal settings. But I felt the word fit into the context of what I wrote, so I used it. The professor in charge of reviewing the paper was incensed, and wrote in big red letters on the paper "the proper word to use is 'while!!!'" and downgraded the paper.

Doh!

As it cost me in my overall grade in that course, I appealed it to the Dean's office, and won. The grade was restored, and all ended well. But it taught me that there are subtle regional variants in english.

Well done, man. Good for you, Billy!

[billf]

For the first 30 years of my life, I was aiming for one of those jobs, then when I got a taste of it, I realized it was the last thing on earth I wanted to do, which was about the time I had discovered MIDI. I trimmed the sails, set the rudder for the professional world, and never looked back.

MIDI was a life changing technology, no doubt about it.

I don't know if the folks who designed MIDI had any idea of how far reaching it would be, being as it is still at the foundation of modern DAWs, and is used in devices that weren't even dreamed of back then (iPads and such). Although we take it for granted now, it was revolutionary at the time.

[musicman691]

... On the other hand, it was nearly impossible to hear it played by a string orchestra without your mind adding the lyrics to the jingle.

Shooshie

true enough!!

You really didn't realize it, did you? It's one of the later rounds within the canon. They keep building up, adding more rhythm, higher harmony, and the apex of the music is the melody of the Burger King jingle. After that round, the canon winds down as the parts play out. The jingle's tune is a literal quote for its first 8 beats. It uses a modern pop progression rather than the Canon's I-V-vi-iii-IV-I-IV-V progression, which obviously would take too long, and had too many minor chords for an upbeat teenage girl singing "hold the pickles."

Shooshie

Even with this explanation I still don't hear it. It seems to me like even you are stretching to make the comparison. Changing progressions and all that - different piece of music to me.

[williemyers]

Even with this explanation I still don't hear it. It seems to me like even you are stretching to make the comparison. Changing progressions and all that - different piece of music to me.

Jack, you don't hear it because.....it's not there??
That is, if you take the melody of the BK jingle, then look for a matching line in the original Pachelbel score, you won't find it. The BK melody/progression is certainly reminiscent of the Canon, but not a lift.

[mikehalloran]

The rhythm and chords are different but the melody is definitely two of the variations in the Canon. I just heard that commercial for the first time a minute ago and recognized it immediately.

I didn't live in a house with a TV from 1973 till 1984 when my brother-in-law couldn't take it anymore and gave us one.

I taught it to a youth orchestra at my church around 1982 or so. I will find my score and look up the measures.

[williemyers]

...the melody is definitely two of the variations in the Canon. ... I will find my score and look up the measures.

thanks, Mike

[Michael Canavan]

I didn't live in a house with a TV from 1973 till 1984.

when I first moved out on my own from 84 to 91 I watched hardly any TV.
People I know will talk about some show like it was relevant to our 'generation' and I have no idea what they're on about.

[Shooshie]

Even with this explanation I still don't hear it. It seems to me like even you are stretching to make the comparison. Changing progressions and all that - different piece of music to me.

Jack, you don't hear it because.....it's not there??
That is, if you take the melody of the BK jingle, then look for a matching line in the original Pachelbel score, you won't find it. The BK melody/progression is certainly reminiscent of the Canon, but not a lift.

This should clear everything up:

• Video: The 1974 Burger King ad at YouTube
  Video: Pachelbel, Canon in D, YouTube video at 5'29"

If there is any doubt left in your mind, or if you need some extra validation:

• Page 30 of this book mentions the same ad and the canon, calling it a "virus of the mind."
  Here's another random post on the subject
  Mark Mothersbaugh has a few words on the subject.

Most people notice the resemblance right off. In 1974 I still saw TV over at my girlfriend's house, because her family left it on constantly. That ad was one of many reasons I swore off TV in my home (to this day).

But we're talking about something from 41 years ago! If it's not a note-for-note quote, then I beg your fricking pardon, but I've never actually met someone who did not think the Burger King ad was a lift from Pachelbel's Canon.

The Canon in D was easily the most famous classical work of that time period, and was played constantly on the radio, in concerts, and sometimes even on TV. The most famous recording of it was by the Jean François Paillard Chamber Orchestra. (and I didn't even have to look up the name or the spelling, even after 40 years) Those Record-of-the-Month clubs featured it. Musical Heritage Society sold it for a dollar if you signed up with them. Many pop bands lifted the tune and used it in their albums. The fact that Burger King also lifted it is not a stretch of the imagination at all. It's good ad sense.

Musicians commented often on this subject. When the Canon in D would reach the iterations that sounded like the Burger King commercial, someone would always sing under their breath, "Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce..." It was a meme of the time. Nobody ever argued that the two tunes were not related. The conversation was always "why do corporations and recording artists steal classical music, add words, and ruin it for others?" I didn't even take part in those discussions. I was just trying to ignore the whole thing, but that was impossible.

Shooshie

[Morpheo]

This should clear everything up:

• Video: The 1974 Burger King ad at YouTube
  Video: Pachelbel, Canon in D, YouTube video at 5'29"

Well...also there's the fact that I-VI-IV-V has been kind of popular chord progession as of late The canon has each chord's dominant between them and the melody on the 5th, as BK does. I'd say all the songs that use I-VI-IV-V are potentially reminiscent of Pachelbel's

On a side note, I was 2 years old back then, and never heard of that commercial before (I guess it was less popular in France than in the U.S ), watching it on youtube this morning was my first time

[musicman691]

Even with this explanation I still don't hear it. It seems to me like even you are stretching to make the comparison. Changing progressions and all that - different piece of music to me.

Jack, you don't hear it because.....it's not there??
That is, if you take the melody of the BK jingle, then look for a matching line in the original Pachelbel score, you won't find it. The BK melody/progression is certainly reminiscent of the Canon, but not a lift.

This should clear everything up:

• Video: The 1974 Burger King ad at YouTube
  Video: Pachelbel, Canon in D, YouTube video at 5'29"

If there is any doubt left in your mind, or if you need some extra validation:

• Page 30 of this book mentions the same ad and the canon, calling it a "virus of the mind."
  Here's another random post on the subject
  Mark Mothersbaugh has a few words on the subject.

Most people notice the resemblance right off. In 1974 I still saw TV over at my girlfriend's house, because her family left it on constantly. That ad was one of many reasons I swore off TV in my home (to this day).

But we're talking about something from 41 years ago! If it's not a note-for-note quote, then I beg your fricking pardon, but I've never actually met someone who did not think the Burger King ad was a lift from Pachelbel's Canon.

The Canon in D was easily the most famous classical work of that time period, and was played constantly on the radio, in concerts, and sometimes even on TV. The most famous recording of it was by the Jean François Paillard Chamber Orchestra. (and I didn't even have to look up the name or the spelling, even after 40 years) Those Record-of-the-Month clubs featured it. Musical Heritage Society sold it for a dollar if you signed up with them. Many pop bands lifted the tune and used it in their albums. The fact that Burger King also lifted it is not a stretch of the imagination at all. It's good ad sense.

Musicians commented often on this subject. When the Canon in D would reach the iterations that sounded like the Burger King commercial, someone would always sing under their breath, "Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce..." It was a meme of the time. Nobody ever argued that the two tunes were not related. The conversation was always "why do corporations and recording artists steal classical music, add words, and ruin it for others?" I didn't even take part in those discussions. I was just trying to ignore the whole thing, but that was impossible.

Shooshie

Quite frankly I'm still not hearing it. And even if it is I don't think any piece of music is so precious that it can't be used in a different way than the composer meant for it. I can't even begin to imagine what you think of Rossini's William Tell Overture being used as the music for the Lone Ranger TV series? That's a more explicit connection than the BK jingle and Canon in D.