Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

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mhschmieder
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Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

Post by mhschmieder »

http://www.cmusic.pro/product-cat/saxba ... nd-medium/

Not sure if Ilya Efimov was involved, but they pay tribute to him. Maybe just because he inspired other Russians to produce Kontakt libraries? Maybe they share a Kontakt scripture.

Anyway, the first demo sounds synth to me, but the funkier second demo sounds like in that context these libraries might prove useful and more convincing than layering individual tracks from Sample Modeling's SWAM-based instruments -- at least when using keyboard based MIDI.

At any rate, I like having more timbres available, and though Sample Modeling offers alternates, the differences aren't all that significant compared to real players.

For those who haven't already bought into the Sample Modeling set, this set might be particularly appealing, and is more affordable than stuff like Fable's big band product.

Also, as all of the Sample Modeling saxes share similar programming, it can help to have the baritones or altos (for example) be from a different source, just as it's usually a good idea not to use the same synth to layer too many parts in the same song.

Note all the available articulations, many of which don't seem to be covered much by other sample-based libraries.
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Re: Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

Post by monkey man »

Thanks for that, Mark.

I hate to say it, and I've only heard SM and now this on my crappy Mac speaker, but this one sounds decidedly more "synthy" to my ears.

You know I've always loved my VL. The WX5 has some issues with the pitch sensor and a sluggish key or two, so this, coupled with the fact that I heard some old SM demos on PooToob last year, has meant that, unless there's something much better out there for pop / rock / funk trumpet, sax and 'bone these days, I can see those SM instruments being my first non-MOTU plug-in purchases ever!.

I figured that, whilst my hardware MIDI rig should be just fine for most things, even pop strings, I do have a problem conjuring up a believable brass section, as we've discussed some years back. I've a crapload of timbral options between the MOTIF rack and INTEGRA-7, but nothing comes even remotely close to how I imagine the SM instruments would sound together. Therein lies my only issue though - all the demos I could find were of the individual instruments; there seemed to be (last year at least) no recordings of the instruments used as a mixed (typical) section. My heart adds up the individual sounds and says, "yeah, these should make an awesome section that'll trounce anything I can do now", but my head wants proof. I don't believe in downloading and installing software demos, period.

I hear what you said about the layering. Surely though, the SM instruments, both solo and combined, would bring my rig into the 21st century where brass sounds are concerned? This aspect of my rig has been the weakest link, along with the ever-elusive conga set, so if I were to fix the squeakiest wheel first, IMHO it'd have to be the WX5 (which is now unplayable, not that I was any good) / VL combo. I bought the Turbo upgrade as you suggested some years ago, but was disappointed in many respects. I lost my fave trumpet sound, and nothing in the new set had the bite I wanted. Most instruments sounded more middy, woody and honky to me. Great for some, but I was after the more bitey, "produced" sound (better suited to modern pop and funk sections) the original VL offered, which of course is nailed by... the SM instruments. I was blown away, I must admit, by what I heard on the 'Toob. Suddenly, there was all the bite I'd ever need. Brilliant, I thought.

OK, so I rambled a bit there. Sounds like I'm trying to talk myself into the SM stuff. I s'pose I'm hoping you'll follow suit. This Russian offering though? Disappointing, bro', at least in MHO. Horses for courses though, and I'm just a punk with unsanitised toilet water behind his ears, as you well know!

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Re: Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

Post by mhschmieder »

SWAM isn't so useful with keyboards as with wind controllers, the way the Kontakt based versions are still at a similar level both ways. A lot of people here are intimidated by wind controllers, so I figure this new library might be a good option for the keyboard-oriented people, and also for super-quick mockup work.

It was late at night when I listened to the demos, so I'll listen again at louder volumes at some point. The tech specs did impress though, and they seemed to have hired good player(s). I like the overall timbre; whereas the SampleModeling programming is excellent but I'm not terribly fond of the timbre outside of the original tenor voicing. I work with it anyway, but often go back to Vienna Symphonic Library in final production.
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Re: Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

Post by monkey man »

Thanks Mark.

Well, I'm switching to keys 'cause the WX5 is rooted now, and one of the things that impressed me about the SM stuff was, at least in the demos I saw, that it was keyboard-driven. I bought the WX about 12 years ago second hand, and it seems the heavy drug addict I bought it from (from somewhere out in the bush) had bent the lip sensor badly (laterally!) and affected key travel and rebound ability through the fact that he chain smoked while playing.

I should say that I wasn't bowled over by the alto horn, but the tenor was awesome, the trumpet bit nicely, and the 'bone/s seemed to have the characteristic timbres that are so sorely lacking in all the ROMplers I've ever owned. I'd have to say that of all the brass instruments, 'bones have been by far the worst on offer on said units through the years, IMHO.

I'm keen to hear your thoughts after you've had another listen, mate.

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Re: Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

Post by mhschmieder »

Yeah, the bones are a bit tricky to work with, but once you get the hang of it, the slide action is truly miraculous and probably not achievable through any other means in any other library to the degree of realism as in Sample Modeling.

The Horn is quite nice too, but I haven't worked with it as much. The Tuba has also gotten some use on some Broadway-oriented arrangements I've done, and I think I used a Bass Tuba variant from SM as well that had a much better differentiated timbre and characteristics than my purely sample-based tubas.

Too bad about the WX. Shooshie might have some suggestions for repairs or where to find replacement parts. I haven't used mine in a few years as I've been focusing on composing, arranging, and producing in the context of a lot of backlog material. I've just been too lazy to dig it out, so I most often use my Arturia controller or a combination of direct notation and editing. Anyway, the next time I need to add new or additional wind parts to some material, I'll more likely dig out my real instruments to play.

I took Shooshie's advice and bought the batteries to put in my WX5, to improve the ergonomics and weight balance as opposed to doing away with the specialized WX cable (though I may eventually do that too).
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Re: Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

Post by Shooshie »

mhschmieder wrote:Shooshie might have some suggestions for repairs or where to find replacement parts.
I don't really know, but if anyone did, it would be Patchman Music, the specialists in wind controllers.

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Re: Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

Post by monkey man »

Yeah, Matt's the man, there's no doubt. He's put so much into the whole wind-controller thing for so long his name is synonymous with the concept, at least to me.

I don't know. The reality is that, considering my complete lack of chops on the thing, I reckon, based on what I saw those dudes do with the SM trump, tenor and 'bone using key switching, I'll surely be able to transition right into creating more believable parts from a board, especially if the switching roughly correlates across the instrument range, which I assume it does. Massaging the data post-take's gonna be a reality either way, and as crappy as I am on the keys, I only need to get into the ball park and I'm away. Now that I think of it, I'm more of an editor than a player, with the whole idea being to give the opposite impression, of course!

So, it's probably bye-bye WX, possibly hello (insert wind controller here) someday if for some reason I can't cut it with the SM stuff, and likely hello SM for me. For my first ever VIs, they appear to be just the ticket, and I can't wait to jump in. I was worried they'd be out of date by now as the demos I saw were years old, but if SM is still going strong and supporting / developing them, this addition to my palette will surely offer my "band impression" the single biggest hike towards realism it's ever seen.

All's I gotta do is build that damned vox booth, acquire that mic and preamp and some pro processing plugs (I'll be seeking advice on this as soon as I know what's going on with AVB for me), and then... monkey madness... I mean, magic. Pigsy and Tripitaka, look out!

Sorry for banging' on there. It was therapeutic in that it was the first time I've been able to articulate the journey to being up and running in so few words. Must mean I'm getting' close.

Woo bloody hoo! :woohoo:

Oh yeah, I almost forgot - Still keen to hear how that demo sounded in the cold light of day, Mark. Thinking back to my listen the other night, "synth" screamed at me, whereas with the SM ones I had to consciously listen in carefully for any skerrick of it. With SM, for you and Shoosh, the attacks probably were more dead give-aways than they would've been for me and most others, but luckily it's "most others" who'll be my victims... I mean, target audience. That said, I think from memory they (the attacks) were impressive considering they weren't produced with BC, hence my prediction that the WX5 is perilously close to death for me. I'll keep it as a novelty at any rate as I suspect its resale value, especially given its imperfect condition, would be negligible.

Again, I look forward to your review: take II, Mark.

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Re: Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

Post by mhschmieder »

OK, now that I've had a chance to listen at just above the level of a human whisper (to me, listening "loud" means matching the average level of a human speaking voice), I'd have to say both demos sound very synthy when it comes to legato, but that the second one works pretty well on discontinuous staccato notes. So maybe it would work here and there, if its timbre matched other libraries. Legato is what VSL and other libraries do best, after all.
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Re: Interesting new saxophone libraries from Russia

Post by monkey man »

You had me worried, bro'; I was thinking about suggesting you grow your pinky fingernail as it makes a mighty-fine and portable ear-wax remover. :lol:

Just havin' a dig; it's a rare opportunity, after all. Actually, it's quite a relief, Mark, because as you know I value your "sound" judgements very highly and I need you to remain in tip-top form and shape. Having you on call 24/7 would be even better... LOL

Looks like SM is still the go tone-wise for when I eventually jump into buying my first VI then? As I said, it'll only be brass that I'll need as I'm happy enough with the ROMpler pianos, keys and synths, the TD-30 drums and MM and L6 guitars and basses. Overall, and I know there's nothing esoteric about the gear, and yes, the TD's no BFD and so on, I do feel that for commercial music and the purpose of emulating a half-decent band this stuff will suffice. The brass solo and section area is really the only glaring fail I reckon. Even the ROMpler strings leave all my brass options for dead tone-wise.

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