DP versus CueMix Master Faders

[cleamon]

I have many projects containing a mix of tracks : audio, MIDI->VI and MIDI->external devices. I'm having a issue when adjusting DP's master fader - it only controls the audio and VI levels - it has no affect on the external instrument(s).
( I'm not talking about at record time, but rather at mix down time ).

To affect the external devices, I have to jump over to cuemix and tweak it's master fader.
OR, if I bring the external stuff in on a bus (and eliminate cuemix), then I encounter latency issues. I know I can reduce this via HW buffers, but I can't eliminate it.
OR, render the MIDI tracks to audio - a PITA since it's time consuming (1 pass per instrument if I want to control them individually later) and if the MIDI changes for any reason, I have to render them again.

So my choices at this point are:

1) deal with having 2 master faders
2) deal with the latency
3) render all the external MIDI to audio (and mute the MIDI tracks)
4) listen to everything full blast!
5) run the main-outs through another device (which I don't have) to control overall volume.
6) maybe set up a bus with the motu "MIX" return as input, and some other output (i.e. analog 7-8) and just not use DP's master fader (and main outs)

Is there a way to set up cuemix to follow DP's master fader?
Thanks in advance,
Chuck

[bayswater]

I don't think there is. I assume you can control relative levels using MIDI volume messages, so this is just about absolute monitoring levels, and how to get both internal and external sources subject to the same fader levels.

I always set up projects so external sounds come in via Aux channels routed to Audio channels or directly routed to Audio channels with monitoring turned on. That way, all sounds can be routed to a single Master Fader within DP. I can record all of them in one pass by record enabling the channels in question. For any timing problems from latency or other sources, you can use the Time Shift MIDI plugin on the tracks playing the external instruments.

[cleamon]

I don't think there is. I assume you can control relative levels using MIDI volume messages, so this is just about absolute monitoring levels, and how to get both internal and external sources subject to the same fader levels.

I always set up projects so external sounds come in via Aux channels routed to Audio channels or directly routed to Audio channels with monitoring turned on. That way, all sounds can be routed to a single Master Fader within DP. I can record all of them in one pass by record enabling the channels in question. For any timing problems from latency or other sources, you can use the Time Shift MIDI plugin on the tracks playing the external instruments.

You are correct, it's about the absolute levels - my monitors plug directly into the main-outs on the motu, so my listening level is controlled by DP's (and cuemix) master fader. I had tried routing through aux tracks, but had latency issues; but I had not thought about applying a time-shift (earlier) to the external MIDI tracks (an amount = to the HW buffer setting). Good idea. I'll give that a shot.
Thanks

[bayswater]

I was concerned about the direct connection between the Main Outs and my monitors because DP usually defaults new objects to 0db. I got a TC Electronic Pilot to control levels, It's just a big volume knob with XLR connections. About $59.

[cleamon]

I was concerned about the direct connection between the Main Outs and my monitors because DP usually defaults new objects to 0db. I got a TC Electronic Pilot to control levels, It's just a big volume knob with XLR connections. About $59.

Great minds huh? I was just looking at that (and others). It's $89 at sweetwater. I'm still looking around though. I've got TRS coming out of the motu and TRS going into the monitors, so I'd hate to use a bunch of adapters.

Thanks
Chuck

[bayswater]

The pilot is $54.81 at B&H, and is in stock.

Yes, decent adaptors get expensive. My interface and monitors are XLR, so it's all good.

[cleamon]

The pilot is $54.81 at B&H, and is in stock.

Yes, decent adaptors get expensive. My interface and monitors are XLR, so it's all good.

Yep, after more shopping I found that one. I wish it had a phone jack. Can't have everything I guess (for the $$). I suppose I could either buy or make custom cables (XLR->TRS). I'd rather not buy cheap cables, so making them might be less expensive than good adapters or buying the better cables. I've got quality wire in bulk, just need (some of) the connectors.

Any recommendations for pre-made cables? connectors?

Chuck

[Shooshie]

Any recommendations for pre-made cables? connectors?

Chuck

Planet Waves adapters. They're a little more expensive, but they are SO well made, and have a lifetime guarantee. I haven't thrown one under a bus like Sweetwater did with that Shure SM 58 mic (it still worked), but they really do seem sturdy. They "click" and hold, but are easy to pull apart when you want to.

Cables? I've got a dozen brands, and you know what? They all work. I've put Monster brand up against Hosa and no-name Chinese brands, and I can tell no difference in the audio, by ear or FFT meter. Not to open a can of worms, but these days I go with color-coded cables. The time it has saved me in tracing connections and "what mic is on what channel" is reason enough to go with them, for me. I've got mics that cost more than I paid for cars in the 1980s, and I can tell the same difference between those mics whether the cables are cheap or expensive. I live in a dry area where corrosion is not a problem, so if you live in New Orleans, you might want to stick with gold-plated connectors, but if you're indoors in the Mojave or Sororan Deserts, or most of the Southwest, that's not a big problem.

But adaptors? By their nature, they're always being connected, disconnected, stepped on, dropped, bent, and broken. Most of the buckets of adaptors I bought in the 1980s and 1990s have fallen apart. You need good ones that you don't have to buy twice, because it's a substantial investment, and yet you need almost every possible combination, or else you'll always be needing the ones you don't have. Planet Waves, so far, has been filling that bill for me. Amazon has a good supply for good prices. Sweetwater probably does, too.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

but they are SO well made, and have a lifetime guarantee.

Every time I see those words, Lifetime Guarantee, I think of the following scenario:

Me: - I need to replace these adaptors. They fell apart.
Planet Waves: - Yeah, buddy? Whatcha want us to do?
Me: - Well, they have a lifetime guarantee, replacement with no questions asked.
Planet Waves: - Yeah? Well that's only good for its lifetime.
Me: - So... you'll replace them, right?
Planet Waves: - Hey pal, do those adaptors look alive?
Me: - Well, they were until they broke.
Planet Waves: - 'Zactly. But those are dead, deceased, passed on, over-the-rainbow. They do not live anymore. They got a bad case of lackalife. Those are late adaptors!
Me: - So? That's my point. Replace them, please.
Planet Waves: - Sorry pal, our warranty only covers them during their lifetime. These adaptors are dead. Not our problem, fella.

Not that they would... but something about those words "lifetime guarantee" always triggers the cynic in me.

Shooshie

[bayswater]

If you poke around in the Sweetwater site you'll find a place where you can build cables on line You put in what you want on each end and it will tell you what they can supply. I've done that a few times, and then asked the sale person to advise on the quality of the alternatives.

I've yet to have a bus run over my monitor cables, so the stuff Sweetwater sent me has served me well for years.

[Shooshie]

Oh, they didn't throw anything of MINE under the bus. They've got a video of a live Shure SM58 mic, which they are narrating through during the video, and they show how durable it is by running a tour bus over it. Then they pick it up and continue talking. The windscreen is busted, but the mic still works as well as ever. Plus wind noise, perhaps.

Shoosh

[bayswater]

Just saying, when I buy stuff, the product's ability to survive being run over by a bus is not a key consideration. I don't understand why anyone does these demonstrations, other than to distract us from things that matter.

[Shooshie]

Just saying, when I buy stuff, the product's ability to survive being run over by a bus is not a key consideration. I don't understand why anyone does these demonstrations, other than to distract us from things that matter.

True... true.