Hardware effects and monitoring

[kresbeatz]

Hello!

Recently I bought some outboard effects - Eventide Space, Time Factor and Pitchfactor, as well as Strymon pedals (El Capistan and Deco). So, I started set up, for example, Time Factor (delay unit) to work in DP as send effect. I made all the necessary busses and IO's in Bundles window, so I have two tracks - Audio Orig and Audio Processed. From Audio Orig track I send the signal to Time Factor and on Audio Processed I'm returning it. After that I put absolutely same drum loop to Audio Orig and Audio Processed tracks and turn WET knob on my Time Factor to zero (to listen latency without actual "delay processing"). I'm hearing a lot of phasing effect, so latency is definitely here and it's absolutely normal (because signal have to go thru soundcard to Time Factor and come back to soundcard again). But I don't know how to fix this

Audio Monitoring mode thru hardware is greyed out (I think because I'm using UA Apollo 16 interface), I can't find any 'External Hardware Plugin' or something like this, I even can't find the place where I can manually type latency to compensate. In other hosts (for example, Cubase) I can setup it like 'External Hardware Effect' and click PING button, after that DAW automatically calculates roundtrip latency, showing it to me and compensate for it. In Pro Tools I have Hardware Inserts tab, where I can manually add latency to compensate. What to do in DP I simply don't know. As more I setup buffer size as more I hear this "phasing" effect. I don't believe that such a powerful host as DP don't have this option, so I think I miss something.

My system is latest Mac Pro, Yosemite, UA Apollo 16, DP 8.07.

Thank you for your help.

[kresbeatz]

So, nobody uses external effects?

I tried Expert Sleepers Latency fixer and it didn't help. I just want to know there is a problem with DP and I can find workaround for it or there is a problem with my soundcard and to comfortably using outboard effects as sends I need to buy MOTU soundcard (I really liked new 16A). Thank you

[kresbeatz]

Unfortunately, I got no reply on this

Now I have three options:

1. Stop using any external effects and make my mixes fully ITB
2. Print Aux track with external effect and manually align it
3. Change the DAW

Problem is that I don't like at all any of three

[Tritonemusic]

Check these threads. I don't what you'll find. Use the Search function to find more posts about this.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =1&t=23432

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=4027

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=2671

[kresbeatz]

Check these threads. I don't what you'll find. Use the Search function to find more posts about this.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =1&t=23432

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=4027

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=2671

I already checked all this links and didn't find a solution. That's why I'm asking.

[mikehalloran]

Audio Monitoring mode thru hardware is greyed out (I think because I'm using UA Apollo 16 interface), I can't find any 'External Hardware Plugin' or something like this, I even can't find the place where I can manually type latency to compensate. In other hosts (for example, Cubase) I can setup it like 'External Hardware Effect' and click PING button, after that DAW automatically calculates roundtrip latency, showing it to me and compensate for it. In Pro Tools I have Hardware Inserts tab, where I can manually add latency to compensate. What to do in DP I simply don't know. As more I setup buffer size as more I hear this "phasing" effect. I don't believe that such a powerful host as DP don't have this option, so I think I miss something.

My system is latest Mac Pro, Yosemite, UA Apollo 16, DP 8.07.

Thank you for your help.

You may not be getting an answer because none of us know what it is. It is unlikely that none exists.

Have you posted a support request (Tech Link) with MOTU? How about with UA?

[BKK-OZ]

Here is something that might help: http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/latencyfixer.html

I vaguely recall another (more sophisticated) plugin, but I don't remember the details ATM.

[Tritonemusic]

Thanks for bringing that up, BKK.

I noticed that it's mentioned in the links I pasted above, but since kresbeatz already said he went through all of those posts, he must not have found it useful.

[James Steele]

I thought I made a very detailed post in the first topic Tritone quoted. It's partway down the 3rd page.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 2&start=30

[Shooshie]

I thought I made a very detailed post in the first topic Tritone quoted. It's partway down the 3rd page.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 2&start=30

You did. I missed that first time around, and spent about an hour today looking in the manual for something that changes latency. Couldn't remember that method to save my life. Buffy and Latency Fixer. Now I remember them. Of course, Latency Fixer isn't in the manual, and Buffy (along with all other plugins) has been moved to another PDF, so I didn't run across it, either.

So, Buffy is still around, and Latency Fixer is the key, but not so easy to find information about them. That combo would be the answer, though, and your post in that link would be the source of info. The OP needs to read that again.

Shoosh

[James Steele]

Myself, I ended up deciding it just wasn't worth trying to integrate outboard effects hardware. It's a big hassle.

[Shooshie]

Myself, I ended up deciding it just wasn't worth trying to integrate outboard effects hardware. It's a big hassle.

Same conclusion I reached long ago. There are a few "rules" to which I hold myself if I'm going to do this digital audio thing:

• 1) stay up-to-date on hardware and software, to every extent possible
  2) don't go half-way and use patches and wrappers and bridges and such. Either stay put or move completely when the technology changes.
  3) It's all in the box, baby! No back and forth until you output a final two-track. THEN you can do what you want with the two-track, but don't mix ITB and OTB.
  4) Cuemix for monitoring during recording, if latency is an issue. And... as a derivative:
  • 4a) Stay with MOTU as much as possible.
  5) Limit myself to the best (for my purposes) instrument libraries I can afford, plus a few favorite odd-things, but don't fall in the trap of getting every cool library for this or that sound. Learn to play and use what I've got, or move to another that serves better, but...
  6) Keep it simple, Stupid! [where Stupid = Shooshie]

Of course, those are personal and not what i expect of anyone else!

Shooshie

[kresbeatz]

Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it. So, I decided to not using my pedals as sends in DP, it will be better just connect it manually to my synths and record processed sound in DP.

However, a lot of other DAWs provide absolutely reliable way to use hardware inserts. For example, in Cubase and Studio One you have "External Effect" plugin. You can load it in any channel and there are three fields: input, output and delay. Also you will find PING button - just press it and it automatically detects roundtrip latency and tell it to the DAW to compensate. After all, just save it as preset and you're good.

I'm not bashing DP, I just want to attract some attention to this theme, maybe MOTU will see it and do something in next updates.

[BKK-OZ]

I agree, and I have a suggestion for you, put your idea into MOTU's Suggestion Box.

A link or two showing how it works in other DAWs might be a good thing too.

[Tritonemusic]

For example, in Cubase and Studio One you have "External Effect" plugin. You can load it in any channel and there are three fields: input, output and delay. Also you will find PING button - just press it and it automatically detects roundtrip latency and tell it to the DAW to compensate. After all, just save it as preset and you're good.

I think it would be a great addition to DP, without a doubt.