How to make wider mixes

[wonder]

I don't mix much, if at all. I usually send it off to the guys who specialize in that (as well as the Mastering process).

But, for the projects that need to stay in house due to budget, I'd love some feedback on this.

I sent a project i mixed to a mastering engineer and what i got back was sounding real good. Besides the EQ and leveling he did, the mix just sounded so much "wider" and bigger...which I like.

Was wondering what some of your tricks are (plugins, outboard gear, etc) for a wider perspective. A lot of my projects are full of instruments (orchestra, guitars, vocals, percussions, lots of BGV's, etc) and I'd love to be able to get wider and better mixes.

Any pointers or thoughts?

[philbrown]

Not all, but quite a few of the major plug-in companies have a plug for stereo widening or for M-S (Mid/side) processing- which you can google. PSP and Waves come to mind. I've never used DP's M-S tool but maybe someone here can comment on it. Of course judicious panning in your mix might be enough to get you where you want to go. You can also use widening plugs on just a few key tracks, and not the whole mix. How you place and pan your verbs and delays is also important.

http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how ... audio-1763

[MIDI Life Crisis]

This is built-in to DP. Worth a try... From MOTU's site:

http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/plug-ins.html

Spatial Maximizer
Mid-side processing for vinyl mastering and beyond

Spatial Maximizer takes a stereo signal and gives you independent control over center (mid) content versus the panned (side) content. Applications go way beyond prepping final mixes for vinyl mastering with side band high-pass filtering and mid band bass enhancement. Each band can be independently processed with a full-featured, five-band dynamic equalizer, allowing you to mould and shape any stereo track or mix. Enjoy dramatic levels of control over the stereo spectrum and spatial impression of a complete stereo mix, or individual tracks within a stereo mix.

[csiaudio]

The only 2 cents I'd like to add to this is as you probably know - be careful as to how much of these types of processors you use. I have found that in most cases you'll lose definition/punch in a mix and it just sounds 'weird'.

Not sure if you're a UA guy but the Precision K is pretty interesting and I don't seem to get all the oddities with it. Something to consider.

[billf]

I don't mix much, if at all. I usually send it off to the guys who specialize in that (as well as the Mastering process).

But, for the projects that need to stay in house due to budget, I'd love some feedback on this.

I sent a project i mixed to a mastering engineer and what i got back was sounding real good. Besides the EQ and leveling he did, the mix just sounded so much "wider" and bigger...which I like.

Was wondering what some of your tricks are (plugins, outboard gear, etc) for a wider perspective. A lot of my projects are full of instruments (orchestra, guitars, vocals, percussions, lots of BGV's, etc) and I'd love to be able to get wider and better mixes.

Any pointers or thoughts?

You might want to give Ozone 6 a try. It has a stereo field function (as well as many other functions) that may help you get the results you're looking for.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Also, be very careful if you are mixing for TV or film. As a general rule, dialogue (in particular) can get screwed up if not placed center or in the center channel of a surround mix. Music and SFX can go pretty much anywhere.

I personally like it when sounds and music appear to leave usual area of stereo imaging and give the impression of expanding further outward. I've yet to find an easy way to do that and if anyone knows, I'd appreciate pointers or links to plugs that actually do that well.

[Shooshie]

When there are only two sources to work with, the main method for widening mixes is to flip phase. If you flip the phase of one channel, you'll immediately notice that the center channel (the imaginary one) seems to get pushed way back almost to the point of disappearing, and everything moves to the sides. Plugins that do this in a more acceptable manner selectively flip the phase of certain frequencies. They may also use delays for certain frequencies. I've never read how they work, so I don't really know, but there are not many variables to work with in this equation. I'm guessing that they leave alone the lower frequencies, then flip the frequencies of certain channels of audio to push them outward. The crossover points could become problematic if you've got front-row activity going on there. The best I've used is probably the Waves spatial enhancer or whatever it's called. I think it's the S1 bundle. Others are usually more limited in what they can do.

Shooshie

[daniel.sneed]

+1 on Ozone6, for widening if it's your main point, but for many other features.
IMOE, it helps me turning my best studio mixes into deep and solid *world ready* sounds.

BTW, you may take some time to experiment with many tools to see which fit best to your ears, needs and workflow, whatever anyone may say.
I.E., for years now, I get very interesting results with DP MW Compressor, which has got so-so revues around here. I use it in combination with some Ozone plugs. It gets me where Ozone alone does not.

[davedempsey]

Don't overlook the importance of good noise reduction tools. That's the first thing I look at in the mastering chair. I find there is almost always digital crackle, clicks and noise that, although largely inaudible, does interfer with perception. Good tools will allow you to hear just the noise and once you remove it the mix will sound better. You can then look at eq, widening, compression and limiting and will find that you achieve better results with more subtle use of those tools because the decreased background noise profile is no longer masking.
Quite often clients remark how much better their mix sounds after just the noise reduction process.
As csiaudio posted, too much widening will decrease punch and push the mix into anti-phase where it can definitely start to sound "weird". I also agree with MLC - sometimes audio events outside of the expected soundfield can be attractive. It's wise to remember, however, that the mastering process is ultimately about standards and averaging and that too much anti-phase activity can be disturbing for the average listener. That said, I often find phase indicators light up for audio events that sound fine to myself and everyone else who hears it. You would probably find headphones very useful for deciding about the stereo widening settings.
I'd also point out that a major benefit in having someone else do the mastering is that you avoid "doubling up" on mix decisions that are contributed to by room issues and engineer preferences so, for these budget controlled mix and master jobs, you really do need to have a firm handle on your room characteristics.
All other things being equal, if it sounds better, it is better.

[wonder]

All great posts.

I JUST got Ozone 6 (didn't put it on this project as we were almost finished and on a deadline) and I'll check out the features.

As stated, I'm not crazy-well-versed in mixing, I can get by, but I much rather have the guys who really know their stuff do it ... even if it means cutting into my budget.

I'll have to dig into the spatial maximizer by MOTU and see what i can make happen with it.

[wonder]

I know I do need to do some treating of my Control Room. Back where the clients sit theres a big build up of bass ... and I think around 50hz there's some anomalies happening. I usually stick the bass player and drummer back there and they're satisfied

But, I want an ACCURATE room so I need to do some (more) treating.

[cbergm7210]

http://www.crysonic.com/sindo.html

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Sindo never seemed to fulfill it's promise in my mixes. I suspect user error.

[cbergm7210]

Sindo never seemed to fulfill it's promise in my mixes. I suspect user error.

Not enough pancakes probably.

[HCMarkus]

Does anyone care about mono compatibility any more? Phase tricks can cause real problems in mono.