Best input device for DP?

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Shooshie
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by Shooshie »

BKK-OZ wrote:I use and very much like this Logitech M570 wireless trackball mouse:
Image
You can read more here.
Thanks. I just ordered it. It'll be a shootout between it and the mouse. I favor trackballs, anyway, but I've never found one that compared to the old Kensington Turbo Mouse Pro (not the current version). Every small-ball trackball I found used the old mouse-spindle method of transferring motion to perforated wheels that interrupted a diode light detector. Those were notoriously unreliable, filling up with fuzz, hair and dirt until the spindles wouldn't turn and the wheels blocked so that the diodes weren't detected.

Trackballs with the laser detectors that read directly from the ball depended on a pattern of dots printed on the ball. It took too much rotation for detection to begin, and the resolution was poor. Their performance just never felt smooth and reliable like the old Kensington optical-mechanical trackballs with their large bearings and giant ball.

But this Logitech Wireless Trackball M570, according to the specs, seems to have overcome all the objections above, in addition to that of battery drain and operation speed/resolution. We'll see. If it's as nice as it seems, I may be using it either instead of, or in addition to my Magic Trackpad. Looking forward to trying it out. The keyboard, mouse, and trackball all should arrive today.

Shooshie
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by BKK-OZ »

I pop the ball out and clean the rollers every month or so - so far, no dramas. I had the wired version before this one, that lasted ~2 years before it died on me.
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
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bolla
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by bolla »

Image
Microsoft Natural wireless laser 6000
This was recommended after a recurrence of "tennis" elbow.
It has been excellent. It rolls your wrist about 30 degrees to the right and takes the pressure off the elbow.
Cheers, AB

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-ie ... mouse-6000
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by darrell »

What bolla said. I also use a (old, greyface) Mackie Control and Extenders, mostly because it makes my studio look cool, but it does work okay. It gets fussy and spiteful more often than I would like, and then requires (at least with me) a reboot of my old MIDI Express. If it gets stubborn and I have to keep working in DP, I'll just turn them off and go to mouse and Shuttle. The mouses and trackpads you guys are talking about sound cool, though.
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by Shooshie »

Nice to see this thread again. Since we're back at it, I'll report on what I bought. Thanks to this thread and the fine contributors here, I bought a Logitech wireless solar-powered keyboard (Mac-Style), a Logitech "Performance MX" mouse, and the Logitech M570 trackball. All three sit beside my Apple Magic Trackpad as I continue to audition them in various circumstances. Here are my conclusions:

Logitech K750-Mac
  • Solar-powered wireless keyboard: This is colored "aluminum" but is plastic all around. The solar cells are more than capable of keeping it charged on low room light punctuated by an 11 watt LED desk lamp, and subdued daylight coming through the blinds. I work all night, so when it's being used the most, there is no help from the windows. But it charges 24/7 regardless of whether it's on or off. It's sitting charged at 100% power, and always has been.

    I love having an on/off switch. At last I have a defense against my cats, who love tromping across my keyboard when I'm not "getting their point."

    The keyboard feels very much like the Apple keyboard, though not quite as refined. It's very slightly mushier, with the slightest bit of extra play in the keys. Does not slow you down; just feels the tiniest bit different. Still, next to the Apple keyboard, it's the best I've ever used, and the differences are so slight that its convenience vastly outweighs the "feel" of the Apple keyboard.
Next up — Logitech Performance MX Mouse
  • • "Dark Field" (infrared) laser can detect any surface, including glass.
    • 9 programmable buttons, with lots of options
    • feels great
    • excellent movement
    • scroll wheel can spin for half a minute on its own momentum, or it can turn in discreet metered increments (there's an extra button for that option)
    • rechargeable battery (plug in the USB cable)
Logitech M570 Trackball:
  • • 5 Programmable Buttons (wish there were more)
    • compact
    • very sensitive trackball
    • fine detail with whopping acceleration when needed
    • unusually responsive optical ball (laser: no mechanical parts)
    • scroll wheel with button (could move faster)
    • one battery lasts 18 months!
One cool thing about having three devices from Logitech is that they all use the same USB wireless receiver. No, they're not Bluetooth, but sometimes that can be advantageous.

HOWEVER...
Even though I find these devices useful, it is always a huge relief to get back to the Magic Trackpad by Apple. Seriously, there has never been a better, faster, simpler, easier, or more flexible device than this. I only wish that it still worked 100% as it used to work. Even working at about 85%, it's the best thing I've ever used. Mavericks and Yosemite have caused problems in the Magic Trackpad. Most apps have corrected or compensated for these problems, but DP is not one of them.

I'll keep all the new devices. They each have advantages in certain situations. The trackball stays on a shelf until needed, however, while the mouse and Trackpad stay active.

Shooshie
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Yippee!!! :) a convert!
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by philbrown »

bolla wrote: This was recommended after a recurrence of "tennis" elbow.
It has been excellent. It rolls your wrist about 30 degrees to the right and takes the pressure off the elbow.
Cheers, AB
I do a ton of editing 7 days a week for weeks at a time and can barely take my hand off the mouse for stretches of time. I've developed a bad case of tennis elbow in my right elbow. I'm trying to understand how this mouse could help, but am about to order one just on the chance that it could help me. I'm using a Logitech Performance MX right now. If anyone else has any info they'd like to chime in with, I'm in pain and open for ideas.
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by bayswater »

This might be a long shot.

I had what I thought was a similar problem. As neurologist did a load of tests and told me to take the arms off my chair. That worked. The pressure on my elbow from resting it on the arm of the chair for 10 hours a day was making mess of nerves, muscles, etc.
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by philbrown »

bayswater wrote:This might be a long shot.

I had what I thought was a similar problem. As neurologist did a load of tests and told me to take the arms off my chair. That worked. The pressure on my elbow from resting it on the arm of the chair for 10 hours a day was making mess of nerves, muscles, etc.
Interesting! Thanks for posting bayswater, I need all the ideas I can get.
I sure appreciate all the regulars around here. A great bunch of people.
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by Shooshie »

philbrown wrote:I do a ton of editing 7 days a week for weeks at a time and can barely take my hand off the mouse for stretches of time. I've developed a bad case of tennis elbow in my right elbow. I'm trying to understand how this mouse could help, but am about to order one just on the chance that it could help me. I'm using a Logitech Performance MX right now. If anyone else has any info they'd like to chime in with, I'm in pain and open for ideas.
I bought the Performance MX a while back, thanks to this thread. My assessment of it is in my previous post above. It's a good mouse, and probably the best actual "mouse" I've ever used. But if you are in pain, I have to suggest the Magic Trackpad. It takes a week to get accustomed to using it, but for most people after a week they'll never go back to anything else. There is one secret, however, that probably eludes a lot of people: a good, tall, firm wrist-rest. You simply must prop up your hand so that the fingers are dangling over the trackpad. In that position you can go forever without pain.

One thing that is important (for any input device) to stop elbow pain and wrist pain is to use shortcuts for operations that repeatedly take you mousing across the screen and back. The more shortcuts you have, the less your hand has to move. That's where the Magic Trackpad is like no other. I have 81 shortcuts programmed into it for various apps. (Use Jitouch, a 3rd party app) They are easy to remember; it's like sign language or something. I have about 30 global shortcuts (give or take a few), and then 5 to 10 for each of about 8 apps. Many of those shortcuts involve drawing a character on the pad with two fingers separated by about 1.5 inches. By characters, I mean letters: A, B, C... etc. Others are combinations of finger taps, strokes, and slides. It really makes it easy.

Some people really don't want the Magic Trackpad, so if you really want the Performance MX mouse, I think it's a good choice. Let me suggest one shortcut setup:
  • Left & Right mouse buttons:
    • Left button: regular click
      Right button: "Mouse Sensitivity."
What this does is to slow the mouse to a crawl (you set a slider for the speed you want it) so that you can focus on selecting small objects without overshooting a lot. This enables you to set the normal mouse speed for VERY fast. You can rip across the screen with the tiniest movement, then when you get to your target, right-click and you're suddenly moving at a crawl. Select your target, right-click, and you're off speed-mousing around the screen again. That means you have to use Control-Click for a "right click," but I have never liked right-clicking a mouse anyway. I always use Control-Click. Of course, you still have several other buttons you could use for that, but I found myself needing those buttons for other things. The Right-Click button was the only one that consistently was not in use for any app, and accidentally clicking the right-click button set this way won't do anything but slow down the mouse, so that seemed like the logical place for it.

Just a suggestion, but all my devices are set up to minimize pain and excess repetitive movement. Thought you might appreciate that one.

One more thing about this mouse (and most mice) is that you will be accidentally clicking a lot until you develop some hand position/method to avoid it. The buttons go to the end of the mouse, and the only place you can rest your middle finger is on the buttons themselves, or reach beyond and rest on the desktop.

Shoosh
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by supersonic »

I use the Kensington Expert mouse. I have had it for do many years I can't remember how long exactly. Great tool. Though it needs cleaning often.
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by BKK-OZ »

philbrown wrote:I do a ton of editing 7 days a week for weeks at a time and can barely take my hand off the mouse for stretches of time. I've developed a bad case of tennis elbow in my right elbow. I'm trying to understand how this mouse could help, but am about to order one just on the chance that it could help me. I'm using a Logitech Performance MX right now. If anyone else has any info they'd like to chime in with, I'm in pain and open for ideas.
Years ago a friend/colleague of mine almost lost his career and ability to work through a similar situation. He had worked endless hours to meet a deadline for some GIS (mapping) work he was involved in. He ended up becoming an expert in the Alexander Technique after going through a lot of different therapies and rehab. I think he is now a AT therapist.

One of the simplest but most important things he did was to get two mice (mouses?). He said it took him a week or so to adjust, but by splitting his work, mousing 1/2 the day with one hand, the other 1/2 with the other, he found he was able to work again for extended periods.

I had a similar, much less severe problem. I adopted the trackball mouse and an ergonomic (MS) keyboard and I find that works for me. Stretching every hour, getting up and walking around are good ideas too.
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
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supersonic
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by supersonic »

Alexander Technique rocks! So does trackball ;)
Music is movement in silence
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by Shooshie »

supersonic wrote:I use the Kensington Expert mouse. I have had it for do many years I can't remember how long exactly. Great tool. Though it needs cleaning often.
Is yours the old model or the new one? The old one had 13 buttons if you include the two "chords," but the new one only has about 6 or 7.
  • Image
      • Old Kensington Wireless Turbo/Expert Mouse
Until the Magic Trackpad came along, that was my mainstay; I couldn't get by without it and its buttons! The Magic Trackpad, however, has more shortcuts than even I can use. (Jitouch)
But that was a GREAT trackball.

Less great is the new one:
    • Image
I had the wireless version of this one, too. In fact, I had two of them, but they just wouldn't work right. Plus, they eat C-Batteries (colossal dinosaurs by today's standards) like a pup eats chow. I was not able to use them.

I had to keep fixing my old wireless Turbo Mouse Pro, since it was not replaceable anymore. I've got a closet full of them which I was using for spare parts. Thankfully, the Magic Trackpad put an end to that.

While we're on the subject of "best input devices," I wonder if anyone has ever attempted to pair THIS thing with a DAW, particularly DP! It would have keys for each Space (for those who use Mission Control/Spaces for their fully expanded Edit and Mixing Board windows), and who knows what else? I'm not even sure it's a mouse, but it was developed for CAD programs. Looks like you could use it as a sophisticated mouse. At $400, it's probably overkill. But if it were the perfect input device, I would not balk at the price. Just don't expect me to be the guy who pays to find out!!!

(Click image for website)
Image
      • Space Pilot Pro
In the demo, the knob moves along several axes to provide 3-D rotation, zoom, and camera angles. I don't know if those things would translate to some sort of soundbite/MIDI editing or selection techniques or not. It gives me ideas, though, for the perfect DAW tool. That might require cooperation with MOTU, though.

Well, it's all interesting stuff.

Shoosh
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supersonic
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Re: Best input device for DP?

Post by supersonic »

I have the new one and don't need more buttons then that :). The rest is done with keyboard shortcuts and control surface. I try to keep the style of work as streamlined as possible.
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