Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with CC11

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MediaComposer88
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Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with CC11

Post by MediaComposer88 »

Hi all,

I recently added a Novation Zero SL MkII to my setup for assigning CCs to control my virtual instruments.

I got everything setup like I want it, save for one thing: the slider/pot pick-up (aka soft take-over) feature only seems to work with CC7, not with - for instance - CC11. I'm working in Digital Performer 8.

Does anyone now whether this is custom or whether there are ways to also activate this for CCs other than CC7?

Regards,

MediaComposer88
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by wvandyck »

Take a look at the Creating and Editing Advanced Mode Templates on page 28 of the user guide. There is a Additional Options section only for the Encoders and how they can function as an "endless control".
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MediaComposer88
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by MediaComposer88 »

wvandyck wrote:Take a look at the Creating and Editing Advanced Mode Templates on page 28 of the user guide. There is a Additional Options section only for the Encoders and how they can function as an "endless control".
Thanks for the suggestion!

I found out how to change these settings, but so far, nothing has changed. No matter what I do, the encoders/pots/sliders just won't "pick-up" on the current value.

Here's what I tried:
- In Advanced Mode, switching global "Pick-Up" mode on and checked all controls separately to make sure pick-up was activated. This is now the case, but pick-up still doesn't work.
- Tried each of the available encoder modes, without success.
- Tried to mess around with MIDI In/Out configuration, thinking maybe DP doesn't send cc info back into the Novation unit - anything that could be wrong here?

Cheers,

MediaComposer88
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by daniel.sneed »

AFAICT, in my 25 and 49SLMKII, the faders can only :

- pick the value as soon as I move the sliders
OR
- pick the value as soon as I reach the actual DAW value and go farther up or down.

This last one is what I decided to go with, for the levels or VI values has to be somewhere before my first move, and I can get to know where they were at the moment the project was saved.

IMHO, to behave in another way, the faders should be *flying faders* (motorised), which they are not in Novation SL series.
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MediaComposer88
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by MediaComposer88 »

daniel.sneed wrote:AFAICT, in my 25 and 49SLMKII, the faders can only :

- pick the value as soon as I move the sliders
OR
- pick the value as soon as I reach the actual DAW value and go farther up or down.

This last one is what I decided to go with, for the levels or VI values has to be somewhere before my first move, and I can get to know where they were at the moment the project was saved.
So, how do you manage to make the second scenario work in Digital Performer? Because I can't get the faders to pick the value as soon as I reach the actual DAW value.

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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by daniel.sneed »

Answers are in p25 and p22 of english Novation user manual.

It's called *Pot Pick-up - Pick up*
Access is in Novation SLMKII Global menu and in Template edit menu.
The setting to get the *second scenario* is ON.
First scenario is OFF.

BTW, in my setup, I only use Automap, no specific template, so everything depends on Global menu.

Just to make sure we speak same language:
DP never sends anything to Novation SLMKII. And never intended to.
That's Novation to DP, only.
It's called a controller, after all, not a controlled. Hum, hum...
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by MediaComposer88 »

daniel.sneed wrote:Answers are in p25 and p22 of english Novation user manual.

It's called *Pot Pick-up - Pick up*
Access is in Novation SLMKII Global menu and in Template edit menu.
The setting to get the *second scenario* is ON.
First scenario is OFF.

BTW, in my setup, I only use Automap, no specific template, so everything depends on Global menu.

Just to make sure we speak same language:
DP never sends anything to Novation SLMKII. And never intended to.
That's Novation to DP, only.
It's called a controller, after all, not a controlled. Hum, hum...
Thanks for your help!

Unfortunately, after having switched on every available pick-up setting, I still can't get the functionality I'm after. It made me wonder if the things I'm trying to do are even possible with the pick-up feature, so let me sketch the workflow I'm trying to achieve:
- I assign CC11 to a fader
- I record CC11 data (let's say, with values around 20)
- I stop recording and move the CC11 fader to its highest point
- In DP, I place my cursor in the middle of the CC11 data I recorded earlier; the recorded values being around 20, my fader currently at 127
- I hit record, and what would be the ideal scenario, is that at this point, CC11 data will be written only when I move my fader down around value 20

However, I can't get this to work, so is it even possible? If no, too bad - if yes, could there be anything in my configuration that's wrong? Here's the way I set things up:
- Automap > Software Setup > Advanced > MIDI Ports: Out & In set to Automap MIDI; MIDI Channel 1 selected; HUI switched off
- Digital Performer: I didn't add the Novation to Control Surfaces (after all, I use the Novation as a freely assignable controller for CC messages). Also, I didn't add it in Bundles > MIDI Devices

Any things you have to consider when it comes to automation modes/settings?

The funny thing is, that when I hit record and I assign an encoder as well as a fader to CC11, they actually do pick-up on each others values. Also, when using the unit as a dedicated mixer, pick-up seems to work fine when dealing with CC7.

All the best,

MediaComposer88
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by daniel.sneed »

Not sure to get what you're after, but:
- I do use HUI emulation on my computer
- Novation info: *The latest version of Automap will include a DAW Setup Guide*, that's what I've been thru to set HUI emulation
- to record automation (which I never do, only graphic mixing) I think you need to turn on the Rec buton on the track in the mixer, not to press transport panel Rec button.
- AFAICT, Automap and HUI emulation did take care of fader assignments. I use them in live situation, never had to set them. Only special functions for some buttons, set in DP command window (which is a true gem!).

There may be useful informations in DP manual under:
- Mix automation
- Mix automation setup
- Automation modes
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MediaComposer88
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by MediaComposer88 »

daniel.sneed wrote:Not sure to get what you're after, but:
- I do use HUI emulation on my computer
- Novation info: *The latest version of Automap will include a DAW Setup Guide*, that's what I've been thru to set HUI emulation
- to record automation (which I never do, only graphic mixing) I think you need to turn on the Rec buton on the track in the mixer, not to press transport panel Rec button.
- AFAICT, Automap and HUI emulation did take care of fader assignments. I use them in live situation, never had to set them. Only special functions for some buttons, set in DP command window (which is a true gem!).

There may be useful informations in DP manual under:
- Mix automation
- Mix automation setup
- Automation modes
First of all, thanks for the time you take to reply to my posts!

It seems you're using the Novation Zero more like a dedicated mixer than a freely assignable controller for MIDI CC data, which is the way I intend to use it. The fact that there's a distinction between automation and continuous control Data in DP, could explain why there are things that work fine in your setup, but are (probably) not possible in my workflow.

The only MIDI controllers found in the Automation Setup menu are Volume, Pan and Track Mute (which is not surprising considering that with those parameters, the pick-up function is working fine).

So, maybe what I'm after is not possible with continuous data other than those 3 types...

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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by FMiguelez »

MediaComposer, I don't know if this is what you're missing, but remember that for each "device (VI)" you want to automate using Automap, you must create a Virtual MIDI channel (page 18 of Automap 4 user guide).
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by MediaComposer88 »

FMiguelez wrote:MediaComposer, I don't know if this is what you're missing, but remember that for each "device (VI)" you want to automate using Automap, you must create a Virtual MIDI channel (page 18 of Automap 4 user guide).

Hi FMiguelez,

I selected enabled all 16 MIDI channels (in Automap > Software Setup > Advanced) and made sure they were all mapped.

The 16 channels show up in Digital Performer. I tested things out, but still get jumps when working with CC11. Did you actually manage to make it work in such a way that the pick-up feature works when working with CCs other than volume, pan, and track mute?

Regards and thanks,

MediaComposer88
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by David_Focusrite »

Hi MediaComposer88,

When using Automap (even in Advance Mode) CC#11 is scripted to control the expression pedal. So it seems that DP may be overwriting your assignment pop pick-up because of this. Since you mentioned that other CC#s do function correctly, this further suggests that is what is happening. I would recommend using a different CC# assignment. Is there any reason in particular you would like to use CC#11 ?

Please let us know how you come along.

David // Novation Technical Support
MediaComposer88
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by MediaComposer88 »

David_Focusrite wrote:Hi MediaComposer88,

When using Automap (even in Advance Mode) CC#11 is scripted to control the expression pedal. So it seems that DP may be overwriting your assignment pop pick-up because of this. Since you mentioned that other CC#s do function correctly, this further suggests that is what is happening. I would recommend using a different CC# assignment. Is there any reason in particular you would like to use CC#11 ?

Please let us know how you come along.

David // Novation Technical Support
Hi David,

Thanks for chiming in!

I'd like to have cc11 assigned to a slider in order to write expression data for my orchestral virtual instruments (Spitfire Percussion, LASS, CineBrass, Berlin Woodwinds).

I didn't manage to realize the workflow I'm after for any MIDI CC (not only expression). However, what I'm trying to get with MIDI CCs, did actually work in the dedicated mixer/HUI mode, but only for volume and pan.

This is what I tested: in DP, I record CC11 automation data, moving the slider all the way up, then pause recording and move the slider all the way down. When I resume recording I get a sudden jump instead of the pick up functionality.

In all fairness, it could very well be that I misunderstand the pick-up function or I don't know of its limitations. Maybe what I'm trying to achieve is simple not possible.

Cheers,

MediaComposer88
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by David_Focusrite »

Hi MediaComposer88,

I understand what you are trying to do! In order to achieve this, you will need to set the pot pick-up settings within your DAW. This way the automation is not written again until you reach the pick-up point. Since the Controller only sends MIDI data, it is sending MIDI data to your DAW saying that is in the zero position; which is why you have the sudden jump even when pot pick-up is selected in Automap.

I hope that this helps!

Best,
David // Focusrite Technical Support
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Re: Novation (Zero) SL MkII Pick-Up aka Soft Take-over with

Post by MediaComposer88 »

David_Focusrite wrote:Hi MediaComposer88,

I understand what you are trying to do! In order to achieve this, you will need to set the pot pick-up settings within your DAW. This way the automation is not written again until you reach the pick-up point. Since the Controller only sends MIDI data, it is sending MIDI data to your DAW saying that is in the zero position; which is why you have the sudden jump even when pot pick-up is selected in Automap.

I hope that this helps!

Best,
David // Focusrite Technical Support
Hi David,

Thanks again, I appreciate you support!

I kind of understand what you say, but I honestly don't know how to influence this in Digital Performer. I'll check out the User Guides, but I contemplated the guide many times, and do not recall finding anything like this. I'll definately try again though!

Regards,

MediaComposer88
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