Waves Codex & Harbingers of Disappointment

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MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: Waves Codex & Harbingers of Disappointment

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

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Re: Waves Codex & Harbingers of Disappointment

Post by jloeb »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Then there's this... http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 26&t=58435
Indeed. All the more reason to write!
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Re: Waves Codex & Harbingers of Disappointment

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

jloeb wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Then there's this... http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 26&t=58435
Indeed. All the more reason to write!
It and Waves are already way off my radar. I'll bark at the moon first.

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Re: Waves Codex & Harbingers of Disappointment

Post by jloeb »

While I understand and co-resonate with the howl, I don't know that it's good for the platform. Plus I like Waves' work in general, have a lot of their plugs, and absolutely don't want them turning DP into a crashfest.

I hope those in my situation and yours will write Waves and let them know.
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Re: Waves Codex VI in DP

Post by Shooshie »

bayswater wrote:Has Waves pretended to support DP when it doesn't? Seems to me they've always been pretty straight on what they support and what they don't. I have Waves plugins working in DSP-Q, although Waves support is very clear they don't support it and I'm on my own.

I was up in the air with Waves. I got the Renaissance bundle a long time ago and still like it very much. I've bought quite a few Waves plugins since then on the no brainer sales, and they're usually a "so what?". I'm not getting any more, but I'm not removing the Renaissance package.
It's not a matter of pretending, or inaccuracies, or those gray-area kinds of things. About ten years ago or so they just suddenly, without warning, stopped supporting DP. Not on a plugin or two, but ACROSS THE BOARD. Suddenly we were cut adrift, and pleas for help were met with ridicule and derision. I was told a number of times that I should use Logic or Pro Tools, and that I was wasting my time with that Digital Performer. This went on for about 18 months.

This, despite the fact that I had just bought a 3 year WUP contract on the Platinum Bundle. They refused to refund my WUP money. This story goes on and on and on; that's by no means the end of it. Apparently it was a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing, because the plugin software engineers seemed unaware that they suddenly were no longer supporting DP. Once someone made them aware, we got support back in about two weeks. That seems pretty arbitrary and based on a small group of people within Waves who literally chose to hate the users of DP, for reasons that have nothing to do with us.

That last part is speculation on my part, of course. I have no idea why it happened, but based on the evidence, the decisions were arbitrary and not based on any technical reason. So permit me to express concern when even ONE of their products suddenly turns up without DP support. They support Studio One? Main Stage? Really? And not the oldest DAW on their list of hosts? Nor is there any intention of such support?
  • Codex is supported on the following hosts: Pro Tools HD (AAX Native 64-bit, RTAS & Audiosuite only), Logic Pro, Ableton Live, Nuendo, Cubase, Main Stage, Studio One, Sonar.
I'm afraid toodamhip's assurances just don't do the trick. Based on past history, that worries me. The last time they pulled support, one day everything worked fine, and the next day Waves said they'd no longer support DP. In spite of their stance, most plugins continued to work, at least for quite a while, but gradually they began needing updates. We couldn't get them. I thought that was all behind us, but this seems to say there is a problem. Am I supposed to just trust them? That trust lost me about 18 months of WUP last time this happened, and trust me, that was expensive.

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|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Re: Waves Codex VI in DP

Post by jloeb »

Waves has responded:
I understand you completely.

As much as we would like to support all of our products under MOTU DP (and other DAWs),
we are unable to qualify certain products for some of the plugin hosts for different reasons,
In MOTU DP, this is due to performance issues that can only be resolved on MOTU's side.

Codex is also still unsupported in these following hosts: Sonar, WaveLab, Main Stage, Pyramix and Garage Band.

That said, at the 1st opportunity we get to qualify Codex to run under DP, we will add it to the support list.
Please note, that this is pending DP updates by MOTU.

In any case, regarding other Waves V9 plugins - they are only officially supported to run in MOTU DP8.


Please let me know if you need more information.
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Re: Waves Codex & Harbingers of Disappointment

Post by jloeb »

Waves has responded:
I understand you completely.

As much as we would like to support all of our products under MOTU DP (and other DAWs),
we are unable to qualify certain products for some of the plugin hosts for different reasons,
In MOTU DP, this is due to performance issues that can only be resolved on MOTU's side.

Codex is also still unsupported in these following hosts: Sonar, WaveLab, Main Stage, Pyramix and Garage Band.

That said, at the 1st opportunity we get to qualify Codex to run under DP, we will add it to the support list.
Please note, that this is pending DP updates by MOTU.

In any case, regarding other Waves V9 plugins - they are only officially supported to run in MOTU DP8.


Please let me know if you need more information.
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Re: Waves Codex & Harbingers of Disappointment

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

I wonder what MOTU would have to say about that? Thanks for posting.
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Re: Waves Codex VI in DP

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Sure would have been nice to keep all this in a single thread, but no... <sigh>
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Re: Waves Codex VI in DP

Post by jloeb »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Sure would have been nice to keep all this in a single thread, but no... <sigh>
Sorry 'bout that mate. The point of splitting off a new topic was specifically to encourage people to write in as a first post. Now that there's been a response, I wouldn't object if James decided to merge them, though I still think as many users as possible should write Waves just to keep the drum thrumming.
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Re: Waves Codex VI in DP

Post by kgdrum »

Shooshie wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Don't bother. Tech support at Waves says DP is NOT supported. It will not run.

Last time it happened, an engineer from Waves was talking to a member of this forum and learned that Waves had not supported DP for over 18 months, and, a little perturbed, said there was no reason for that. He went back to work and within a couple of weeks, we had a new Waves installer that supported DP.

Shoosh


I was the person who had the chance encounter with the Waves programmer who happened to be in the place I worked at the time,I wish I still had his name or contact info..............................
From what I gathered from the discussion, it seems like Waves programmers & the marketing- sales arm of the company don't interact too much.

I let my WUP expire a year ago,now I get error messages when I start DP about unauthorized Waves plugins and something about the USB dongle needs to be redone,frankly I can't be bothered ,I rarely if ever use these anymore and I really don't want to pay $$ to re-up my WUP to straighten this out for plugs I rarely find useful.

I'm setting up a new MacPro with Migration assistant,I'm thinking about deleting everything Waves related before I do this to make the new Mac less problematic,anyone have any suggestions what I need to delete besides the obvious,Waveshell etc......?

It's pretty strange how it seems like Waves wavers back and forth on supporting DP.
I'm glad there are plenty of other companies whose plug-ins and vi's I actually prefer and always seems to work with DP. :wink:
2012 Mac Pro 3.46GHz 12 core 96 gig,Mojave, DP11.01,Logic 10.51, RME UCX,Great River ME-1NV,a few microphones,UAD2, Komplete 12U,U-he,Omni & way too many VI's,Synths & FX galore!, Mimic Pro w/ SD3,Focal Twin 6 monitors, Shunyata...........
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Re: Waves Codex VI in DP

Post by bayswater »

What's odd about this, sales and marketing might, conceivably, tell engineering what hosts to support, but engineering makes it happen, or not happen. How could the engineer not know?
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Re: Waves Codex VI in DP

Post by Gravity Jim »

I've been using Waves plug-ins for something like 14 years (I started with the Gold native bundle right at the time MondoMod and SuperTap were introduced, and I have never had a problem installing or using them) and I don't get it. These are just AU or VST plugs. Why would they have to do anything special in order to "support" DP?

My first bundle was version 1-point-something, IIRC. Now we're on 9-point-something, and I never saw a loss of functionality. What is it about these plugs that makes them DAW specific?
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Re: Waves Codex VI in DP

Post by bayswater »

Gravity Jim wrote: What is it about these plugs that makes them DAW specific?
In theory, all web sites and all browsers support the specifications laid out by W3C. In practise, developers on both sides take shortcuts for reasons of cost, efficiency and so on. The developers' goal is to get things to work most of the time in most conditions. There's no reason to expect things to be different with AU and VST standards.
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Re: Waves Codex VI in DP

Post by Shooshie »

Gravity Jim wrote:My first bundle was version 1-point-something, IIRC. Now we're on 9-point-something, and I never saw a loss of functionality. What is it about these plugs that makes them DAW specific?
WUP upgrades. You were ok as long as you said you used Logic, and as long as they worked. But when they didn't work, and you had to get support, you ran into trouble. You needed WUP. Somewhere I've written the whole story here in these forum pages, but I don't care to find them and reprint them again. It was a lot of long posts, full of angst, and I just don't want to go there. In one case, I paid hundreds of dollars for the L3MM, and it would not register, because of the way the Platinum bundle installer was written. I tried to get help, but they wouldn't do anything, because I wasn't covered (despite having paid for 3 years of WUP). It was too easy for them to say "your problem is that you're using DP," and yet it didn't work in ANY of my apps, including Logic, or any of the Apple film editors. I tried periodically for over a year, but always got the same attitude. Finally, they started supporting DP again, so I tried again. I got transferred to an engineer. He realized the problem was in the way the installer was written, so he handed it to a lady programmer. By the next day, she had written a new installer that dodged the problem of having a registered Platinum bundle. (it's complicated; don't ask) Suddenly I was able to install, authenticate, and use my L3 MultiMaximizer for the first time since I had bought it a year before.

Sounds bizarre, but I still have the notes from the conversations, and the basic encounters with Waves over that time period. There were some other plugins that did not work until they restored "support." I don't remember why, now, but I'm pretty sure it had to do with getting updates.

If you didn't have any problems, that's great. I did, and they were not user-fixable.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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