Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Discussion of Digital Performer use, optimization, tips and techniques on MacOS.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by FMiguelez »

What tools are you using in DP for this kind of stuff?

When I walk into my local Oxxo, they sometimes have these awesome tracks blasting away. I don't even know what the genre is. It sounds like EDM or dub step (bass changing from eight notes to triplets and sextuplets, etc). They have blasting effects, sweeping bass and melodies spanning octaves, distorted FXs, etc. Very creative stuff...

They sound pretty virtuosistic to me... I know I don't have the chops to do that, but I'd like to learn at least a few tricks.

Can any one recommend some awesome music in this style? Bands or songs? You know, something you admire and think has some great production values.

Also, what VIs are useful for this stuff that work with DP8? Any Tutorials?


This music is not really my cup of tea, but I can certainly appreciate great productions in any style. It annoys me that I don't think I can do them myself right now... :?
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
crduval
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:49 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by crduval »

My son told me about dub step and I knew nothing about it so I got on soundcloud and did some browsing and found "Destroid" which I think is a collaboration between some artists in that genre. Anyway it is some really great stuff. My reaction was the same as you; I never really listened much to electronic music but that stuff is really pretty cool. Check it out!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M2 MacBook Air, DP11, MOTU MX-4, MOTU Mach5, EWQLSO Platinum, Acoustic Samples B5, UAD Waterfall Organ, EWQL Platinum Pianos, UVI Falcon, UAD-2 Duo, MOTU Ultralite mk5, K2600XS controller
User avatar
BKK-OZ
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Oztrailia
Contact:

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by BKK-OZ »

None of this is dubstep (strictly speaking, I am unsure of the definition here - I have a vague notion) but some of my fave electronic (often called 'IDM' or 'Intelligent Dance Music') stuff, in order of current love:

I love everything this guy (Daisuke Tanabe) has done, but especially his latest 'Floating Underwater'.

Again, not dubstep, but has elements of what some would call dubstep, in my opinion a major talent (FKA Twigs) in the making.

Mr Flying Lotus is a genius, at least as far as I can identify one.

Submerse are always intriguing.

Actress is also worth checking out.

n.b., I have linked to iTunes here for convenience, but Bleep.com is probably a more focused source for this sort of stuff.

In terms of tools, there are of course quite a few, here are some:
  • - NI's Maschine (I use this all the time now)
    - Izotope's Breaktweaker (Tried it, not for me, but still interesting)
    - Haven't tried it, but for sweeps, UVI's 'Sweep Machine'
    - I have a few other things from Fab Filter, but not Volcano
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
User avatar
SixStringGeek
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 8:28 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: La Paz, Mexico

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by SixStringGeek »

FMiguelez wrote:Can any one recommend some awesome music in this style? Bands or songs? You know, something you admire and think has some great production values.

Also, what VIs are useful for this stuff that work with DP8? Any Tutorials?
One of my kids is into dubstep. The front runner artist seems to be skrillex. If you search for skrillex tutorials you'll find a lot of stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Y0N5BbCqo is one.

Dubstep proper is basically music made using harsh electronic noises in rhythmic patterns. I like to tease my kid for listening to "machine noises". Tools of choice are FM8 and Massive but I think Omnisphere would also make a great tool. When you get into electronic dance music (EDM) you will find there are a zillion subgenres (http://doandroidsdance.com/features/an- ... dm-genres/). Its insane how specific they get.

For EDM tips in general there is a fairly active forum on reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction - the DAWs of choice in that genre seem to be mainly Ableton, with some Logic, and FL Studio.

I've been toying with that stuff as of late myself.
DP 8.newest on MacPro 5,1 Dual Hex 3.33GHz 64G Ram, 3TB SSDs.
Thousands of $'s worth of vintage gear currently valued in the dozens of dollars.
dewdman42
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by dewdman42 »

Yea the kids are really into it and I'm intrigued by it also, but all the little sub-genres and keeping track of it all is a bit overwhelming.

I think you summarized quite well the overall idea behind it, which is using synths like FM8, Massive and others to modulate the hell out of sound and create all manner of noise which can be musical in terms of sweeps, wobbles, growls, glitches, etc.. Harmor is also quite good, you can get the free alpha OSX version to try right now. A lot of dubstep tutorials on you tube seem to use it, along with FM8 and Massive as previously noted. These synths possess the modulation capabilities needed to make all the growls and wobbles and screeches you hear in this type of music.

Here is a funny video I found once when I was searching around. Its apparantly when some record producer tried to pair up Skrillex with Ray Manzarek, Robby Krieger, and John Densmore for new documentary film "RE:GENERATION". Those are some of the original guys from The Doors. The look on the old guys faces when skrillex shows them his glitching and growling idea is priceless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT40_00AGQU

The final song is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUA8OzQxGxE
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 cores,96gb, Monterey (OpenCore), Lynx AES16e-50+X32
User avatar
BKK-OZ
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Oztrailia
Contact:

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by BKK-OZ »

Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
dewdman42
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by dewdman42 »

stuttering is actually a bit old school. That's what BT was doing 15 years ago. Skrillex isn't using that, he's modulating the hell out of everything. Anyway check out some of the many you tube tutorials floating around about it and have fun.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 cores,96gb, Monterey (OpenCore), Lynx AES16e-50+X32
User avatar
Babz
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by Babz »

Most people doing dance music today probably use stuff like Ableton Live, FL Studio, Reason, NI Maschine, etc. A lot of what is involved in this kind of music is building up "grooves".

DP is not as loop-centric as some of these other programs, but you can still do EDM in DP. I recently did a remix of a Todd Rundgren track called "Collide-A-Scope", from his latest album, STATE.

Todd is an older guy like many of us, with a career that began in the late 60s/early 70s, but he has continued to evolve with the times -- from Brit Rock, to 70s pop, to Prog Rock, to New Wave, to Hip Hop, and beyond. His last couple of albums have been electronic dance music, done in Reason.

See this trailer for the tour to get some idea:

http://vimeo.com/65918670

He used YouTube (and advice from his sons :) ) to research trends for STATE, including groups like Skrillex, Bon Iver, Tame Impala -- a few that I remember off the top of my head. There's a whole Euro scene with a lot of this stuff ... Lots of innovation coming out of the German-speaking and Scandinavian countries.

For my remix, I research latest trends, including, watching entire iTunes-Musicfest concerts from Lady Gaga, Avicci etc. to get ideas.

There are a lot of popular effects (that are now becoming overused cliches), like side-chaining the kick (to get that pumping effect), or drops and rises. You can find lots of tutorials on YouTube, but none of them use DP, so you have to translate to DP equivalents.

All of this manifests itself in myriad genres with names like dubstep, jungle, glitch, IDM ("Intelligent Dance Music -- which is how I would classify STATE) … increasingly nano-specific and tongue-in-cheek (ever groove to some "brostep"?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_el ... sic_genres

But I only had two weeks to do my remix, so I had to work with what I knew, which was DP. BTW, I came up with my own genre name "TRancendent" to describe my track. :mrgreen: It's not really Trance-- really closer to House.

You can check out my remix at this link:

https://soundcloud.com/babz_nyc/tr-coll ... -nyc-remix

This was constructed entirely in DP, using the original Collide-A-Scope stems, and samples from about 10 other tracks from Todd's catalog going back to the 70s -- plus my own composition. Basically, everything is elastic. Stuff from different keys and tempos -- basslines from one tune, vocals from other, etc. -- are worked into an entirely new piece of music, completely different from the original tune.

I was able to do it all in DP. However, since this experience, I have picked up a copy of Ableton Live and NI Maschine and have been learning my way around them. Live has a unique environment called "Session View" where you can basically "play" clips of audio live and develop grooves. This is unlike anything in DP. A lot of the fun of this kind of music is the "live" aspect of coming up with ideas on the fly and keeping the groove going.

But once you've got some basic grooves, you still need to lay them out in a linear timeline. Live has the Arrange view for that. But I think I might just as well use DP for that. I'm still new to Live, but are a lot of areas where I still prefer DP. The two products are complimentary … not an either/or thing. If you work a lot with groove/loop-bases material, Live is worth owning. And it makes you appreciate what DP does well. Then there's Maschine. Another whole way of working.

My background is as a traditional linear songwriter/composer, but I need to keep up with the latest trends. I share your intrigue with all the wild effects coming out of this area. What I like about Todd Rundgren is he always keeps up with the evolution of trends and technology, but underneath it all there are still solid musical ideas, chords, melodies, lyrics.

Best,
Babz
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by FMiguelez »

Wow.
Thank you all for your most informative responses.

You've provided me with some awesome and useful links and information 8)


I've been reading and watching them all. Sadly, I realize how little I know and how out of my depth I am regarding those styles.
But I'm VERY intrigued by them, and if I want to stay "current", I must start at the beginning. I have a looooooong journey ahead of me, but it seems like a lot of fun!

I suppose I'll start by listening to lots of this music (thanks for sharing some of your favorites. This Skrillex dude is great at what he does, BTW) and watching tutorials and start from there.

Next time I go to my local Oxxo, I'll ask the girl who works there for some of the song names she plays when she's working and I'll post them here.

Keep 'em coming!
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
User avatar
Babz
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by Babz »

What I would suggest is, find an artist or song that you like and then build a Pandora station around it.

Best,
Babz
User avatar
Michael Canavan
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: seattle

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by Michael Canavan »

Just so people don't think DP is all about older genres etc. there are a handful at least of people using DP for EDM etc. in all it's forms. The most prominent is Autechre, along with EDM (Electronic Dance Music) there's the nerdy brother IDM (Intelligent Dance Music- lame title) but Autechre are beyond respected in the electronic music community, one of the few to be revered the way Brian Eno is, and they're die hard DP fans. :headbang:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWGUnrIiOoI
M2 Studio Ultra, RME Babyface FS, Slate Raven Mti2, NI SL88 MKII, Linnstrument, MPC Live II, Launchpad MK3. Hundreds of plug ins.
User avatar
BKK-OZ
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Oztrailia
Contact:

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by BKK-OZ »

Prob. need to include the great Boards of Canada in that list of the highly respected groups.
Mouse on Mars too.

None strictly 'dub step', but worth a listen.
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
User avatar
Michael Canavan
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: seattle

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by Michael Canavan »

BKK-OZ wrote:Prob. need to include the great Boards of Canada in that list of the highly respected groups.
Mouse on Mars too.

None strictly 'dub step', but worth a listen.
Sure, but people don't hang on their every word as much as the guys in Autechre. It could be because they practice obscurity in their dealings with the press etc? They're the most name dropping with DP by far as well. From 03 to last year they mention it in any article where equipment is discussed.
M2 Studio Ultra, RME Babyface FS, Slate Raven Mti2, NI SL88 MKII, Linnstrument, MPC Live II, Launchpad MK3. Hundreds of plug ins.
User avatar
BKK-OZ
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Oztrailia
Contact:

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by BKK-OZ »

Michael Canavan wrote:
BKK-OZ wrote:Prob. need to include the great Boards of Canada in that list of the highly respected groups.
Mouse on Mars too.

None strictly 'dub step', but worth a listen.
Sure, but people don't hang on their every word as much as the guys in Autechre. It could be because they practice obscurity in their dealings with the press etc? They're the most name dropping with DP by far as well. From 03 to last year they mention it in any article where equipment is discussed.
Sure, and they have been around for ages too. Autechre are definitely legends. I don't know that I would put them in the same category as Eno though - either musically or in terms of reputation. BoC are also very highly regarded by electronic aficionados. Of course, the list is endless:
- Matmos
- Aphex Twin

(BTW, lest I end up getting pigeon-holed on this forum, I am not personally some kind of lycra-wearing glow stick-waving rager. Dance and techno and mindless relentless thumping beats bore me. Clever use of technology to make new, challenging music, count me in, so my referrals are more about intelligent, mindful music.)
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
User avatar
Guitar Gaz
Posts: 1381
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:36 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: LONDON

Re: Virtuoso EDM-Dubstep production in DP?

Post by Guitar Gaz »

Don't forget Propellerhead's Reason which is very much used for EDM - they even have special dubstep grooves (I don't know how I lived without those!). I just use Reason as a sound source in Rewire - but if you were doing EDM you would use that or Live - doubt you would use DP8 although you could.

Aphex Twin rules - and he really can't be described as EDM as far as I am concerned - he is too good to be formulaic like most EDM.
Gary Shepherd
____________
iMac 27" 3.3 GHz Intel Core i5, 32 GB Ram, Monterey 12.7.4, 64 bit, Digital Performer 11.2, Studio One 6.5 Professional, Reason 11, Melodyne 5 Editor, Korg Legacy Wavestation and M1, Arturia minimoog V, Helix Native 3.72, Bias FX 2 Elite, Superior Drummer 3, EZkeys, EZbass, Nektar Panorama T4, Motu M4, Faderport 2018, Gibson Les Paul Standard, James Tyler Variax JTV-59 and other gear.
Post Reply