Reversing?Horizontally flipping Automation Data?

[sensorium]

I have created automation snapshot to morph settings on a soft synth over the course of 8 measures. This basically works as a macro to morph the settings of a patch. The problem is, I want it to morph back to it's original state by simply repeating the automation data and flipping/reversing it. It doesn't seem there is any way to reverse automation data. I tried: Region > reverse time, but this just cleared the data. Am I missing something or does this feature simply not exist?

Thanks!

[sensorium]

Nobody knows the answer to this?

[philbrown]

My best bet would be to use the Console to invert your automation and record it back in. I haven't fully thought it through, just shooting from the hip to get some ideas going. I would have thought the Reverse Time would have worked for this. Have you tried invoking that from the Event List? I'm definitely groping here for ideas here...

[stubbsonic]

You might try starting with a view filter that excludes all but the data you want to reverse. Then try instead the retrograde command.

[sensorium]

I tried that to no avail. Both reverse time and retrograde just flatten out the automation data.

[stubbsonic]

Poop!! That seems like a very cool effect!!

I was thinking some kind of invert process could work with the Change Controller (with effect automation ticked). But I couldn't really suss out a way to do it.

[sensorium]

I think the problem is that snapshot automation seems to background record the controller movements themselves, as opposed to the state of the parameters. If it was just the state of the parameters, you would be able to change patches completely, take a 2nd snapshot, and literally morph between 2 patches. And unfortunately, this does not work either. Too bad!

Its still just data though. Something that should certainly be reversible....

[Shooshie]

Automation data is track related. It's not a part of the "data" data. That is, it's not notes and controllers. It can be edited in its own layer in the Sequence Editor, but you can't even access it in the MIDI Graphic Editor.

One thing you might try is pasting the automation data into an Aux Track. It may be possible to get at it in an audio track, but the goal is to get it isolated in any track in the Tracks Overview Window. Then, select it in the TOW, and see if the retrograde and inversion Region Menu edits will affect it. If not, then... no... it won't work. But if there is any window in which automation data might be editable on that level, it would be the Tracks Overview Window.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Just tried it in the Tracks Overview Window.
Reverse Time and Retrograde both work just fine. So does Scale Time.

I haven't found a way to invert it, however. All I can think of for inversion is Invert Pitch, and that requires a "pitch" center to invert around. There is no pitch in automation, so it doesn't work there. I tried negative percentages, and that didn't work, either, though it does create interesting effects. Just not a true inversion.

But Reverse Time, Scale Time and Retrograde work great, and that's 3 out of 4. I'd say that's progress. There may yet be a way to do vertical inversion, but I'm not going to experiment anymore tonight.

Shooshie

[bayswater]

Just tried it in the Tracks Overview Window.
Reverse Time and Retrograde both work just fine. So does Scale Time.

If I understand what you did, it was isolating the data that made the difference. Wonder why just selecting it would not have the same effect? Anyway, this merits inclusion in the Tips book.

[Shooshie]

Just tried it in the Tracks Overview Window.
Reverse Time and Retrograde both work just fine. So does Scale Time.

If I understand what you did, it was isolating the data that made the difference. Wonder why just selecting it would not have the same effect? Anyway, this merits inclusion in the Tips book.

Ah, you're right. I'll have the editor get that in there, and I'll withhold his pay until he does!

Shoosh

[sensorium]

Thanks for your efforts! Can you explain the difference between reverse time, retrograde, and a true inversion?

Thanks again. You have all been a great help.

[Shooshie]

Thanks for your efforts! Can you explain the difference between reverse time, retrograde, and a true inversion?

Thanks again. You have all been a great help.

Reverse Time and Retrograde are both similar to "flip-horizontal" in Photoshop.

• • Retrograde is literally "flip-horizontal," or like playing a tape in reverse.
  • Reverse Time is a horizontal inversion of the attacks of the notes, but each note retains its original duration. A reversed phrase will tend to have note overlaps and empty gaps that aren't in the original.

Inversion is similar to "flip-vertical." You choose a note to act as the pivot point, and all notes are flipped according to their interval from that note.


Shooshie