when were comp tracks added to DP?

[menright]

I've been using Performer since 1989 and can't believe I never knew about comp tracks before. When was this feature added to DP?

[mikehalloran]

According to this in-depth review, DP 6.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul09/a ... p_0709.htm

It's a pretty good tutorial.

[Shooshie]

I've been using Performer since 1989 and can't believe I never knew about comp tracks before. When was this feature added to DP?

DP has a lot of "magic" tools, but I'd be hard pressed to think of one more magical than the comp tool. I spend a lot of time in this forum talking about tools and techniques that don't quite do what we all think they ought to, or about tools that simply aren't there, but that we all think SHOULD be there. While I think I also praise MOTU more than I criticize them, this would be a good time to tell them what a wonderful thing they created back in version 6, when they made the Comp Tool.

Version 6 was the most mixed and controversial version in DP's history, if you ask me. They changed the interface in the most annoying of ways. Some things just didn't work right. But they also added a lot of great and long-needed tools. For example, I'd asked for years to have some place, some field where I could see the exact length of a selection. Now we have two such places; one in the header of the edit window, and another in the Selection Window. Those came in with version 6. There were many more great changes, unfortunately overshadowed by the public backlash to the interface change. But soon some individuals created interface mods that made DP even better than ever, and MOTU incorporated their efforts into DP officially, calling them Themes. That's taking lemons and making lemon daiquiris, lemon chiffon cakes, and pink lemonade.

It was some time before I tried the Comp Tool, because I didn't have occasion for it. For it to work, you have to be recording against either a click track or a multi-track beat of some sort. It's not necessary to have all the bar lines and beats adjusted to the audio recording, but that can also help. But when you finally DO try the Comp Tool, it feels like someone just gave you a magic wand. Suddenly the edits that took hours, days, and weeks can be done in just minutes. You can try out many versions before committing to one. You can even go back and change it later.

While the Comp Tool is best employed in choosing the best takes, it can also be used to edit out noises, individual notes, and poor attacks or releases. I wish MOTU would make a comp tool for MIDI, now, or just make it the same tool, but effective on MIDI in the same way that it works on audio. But the fact that they made it at all makes me smile every time I use it. After over a quarter century of such smiling with DP, I've come to expect that from MOTU.

I used to drive to work over a beautiful mountain range, just a few miles from where I lived. It was a short drive, but the early morning sun made it seem as if I were descending into paradise. I often thought about where I was, where I was going, and what I'd be doing all day (working with Digital Performer), and for years and years I'd have to pinch myself to see if this was just a dream. "They're PAYING me to do this???" (and paying quite well, I might add) The Comp Tool just adds to the tradition of making work seem like play. I will always be greatly indebted to the people at MOTU for making my career not just possible, but so much fun! That, in large part, is why I come to this forum to give back to DP and MOTU, who gave me a different path to choose, which had never been available to anyone before. They made possible the career that put food on my table, sent my kids to college, sent us on vacation, and made me thrilled to go to work each day. I'm forever grateful. The Comp Tool just continues the tradition of great software that enables great professional work.

Shooshie

[James Steele]

Love the Comp Tool!

[Tim]

I haven't tried it yet.

[Dan Worley]

I haven't tried it yet.

Do.

[Shooshie]

I haven't tried it yet.

It'll put a smile on your face. Oh... right... you're already smiling. Well, all I can say is that it's magic. I just recorded a whole pile of vocal takes on each of a whole pile of songs. I can't wait to start comping.

Shoosh

[mhschmieder]

The funny thing is, I tried them and either didn't "get it" or didn't find them useful. The thing is, I temporarily group tracks during comping, and ungroup on an as-needed basis based on whether I need to separately cross-fade different tracks in a group or eliminate a glitch from just one track (e.g. a stick hits a top kit piece by mistake but it wasn't picked up by all the mics).

I'm able to work very quickly with this approach, when comping takes "manually" so to speak, and it helps me keep better track of where I am in the process of evaluating what is needed for a final comped take.

It's great the tool is there, but I probably should review it again now that I have a new speedy workflow with track groups to see if the built-in comping tool doesn't get in the way now and instead further enhances workflow.

[Guitar Gaz]

The funny thing is, I tried them and either didn't "get it" or didn't find them useful. The thing is, I temporarily group tracks during comping, and ungroup on an as-needed basis based on whether I need to separately cross-fade different tracks in a group or eliminate a glitch from just one track (e.g. a stick hits a top kit piece by mistake but it wasn't picked up by all the mics).

I'm able to work very quickly with this approach, when comping takes "manually" so to speak, and it helps me keep better track of where I am in the process of evaluating what is needed for a final comped take.

It's great the tool is there, but I probably should review it again now that I have a new speedy workflow with track groups to see if the built-in comping tool doesn't get in the way now and instead further enhances workflow.

I agree - great to have the option and could be useful but my usual working methods don't need this - I find the linear approach of comping not useful for any kind of soloing over repeated passages as quite often I want to move something I played later to earlier in the sequence. The Comp tool only seems to work by picking the best bits of takes in the exact place they were played. Yes I know you can then move them but if you show all takes as tracks, making sections into separate soundbites is just a highlight and a click - and then you can move the soundbite to a comp track to where you want it - so the Comp tool is not really required. However, I agree it is useful if the separate takes are similar in structure (say you have worked out a complete solo and you just want to comp the best performance). But turn takes into tracks is the most useful function for editing for me.

[Babz]

DP got this feature after Logic, but before ProTools. I think DP does it better than either of them.

Best,
Babz

[mikehalloran]

I'm using it on a spoken word project and loving it. It saves a lot of time for a voice actor to try different inflections on words and small phrases without creating completely new tracks.

Although I had DP 6, I was frustrated and went back to 5, not upgrading for real until 7. That is why I looked it up and found the article. It's possible that, had I gotten into the Comp Tool, I would have given 6 a better shot.

[bayswater]

The funny thing is, I tried them and either didn't "get it" or didn't find them useful. The thing is, I temporarily group tracks during comping, and ungroup on an as-needed basis based on whether I need to separately cross-fade different tracks in a group or eliminate a glitch from just one track (e.g. a stick hits a top kit piece by mistake but it wasn't picked up by all the mics).

I'm able to work very quickly with this approach, when comping takes "manually" so to speak, and it helps me keep better track of where I am in the process of evaluating what is needed for a final comped take.

It's great the tool is there, but I probably should review it again now that I have a new speedy workflow with track groups to see if the built-in comping tool doesn't get in the way now and instead further enhances workflow.

I agree - great to have the option and could be useful but my usual working methods don't need this - I find the linear approach of comping not useful for any kind of soloing over repeated passages as quite often I want to move something I played later to earlier in the sequence. The Comp tool only seems to work by picking the best bits of takes in the exact place they were played. Yes I know you can then move them but if you show all takes as tracks, making sections into separate soundbites is just a highlight and a click - and then you can move the soundbite to a comp track to where you want it - so the Comp tool is not really required. However, I agree it is useful if the separate takes are similar in structure (say you have worked out a complete solo and you just want to comp the best performance). But turn takes into tracks is the most useful function for editing for me.

Guitar Gaz, I think I understand what you said, but still don't understand why you wouldn't use the Comp Tool. What am I missing?

All the editing you can do with tracks can be done with takes, you can chop up the audio, move it around, and do whatever arranging and editing you would do with takes sitting in their own tracks, so there is nothing lost there, no disadvantage I can see.

In addition, the Comp Tool will automatically mute and unmute the sections of audio you auction (see threads on Mute Tool!), and makes it easier to set up the points where a tracks contributes to the comp, because the comp tool acts both as a cut tool and and edge edit tool at the same time.

[Shooshie]

Guitar Gaz and mhschmieder, I heartily recommend that you both give comping a real college try. The things you described doing without the comp tool just sound painful to me now. Of course, when your takes are not in time with each other, then comping isn't as useful, though I've used it anyway, moving things around till they more or less line up.

But any time you have done multiple takes in time with a common rhythm track, there simply is no method of working as fast, easy, simple, and effective as the comp tool. It's like the difference between creating something by way of making moulds and lost wax casting vs. high-definition 3-D printing, except that you don't get any extra hand-craftsmanship points for doing it the hard way.

If you've really tried it and rejected it, then to each his own, but for the life of me I can't see why anyone would NOT use the comp tool when it's appropriate.

Shooshie

[Guitar Gaz]

Guitar Gaz and mhschmieder, I heartily recommend that you both give comping a real college try. The things you described doing without the comp tool just sound painful to me now. Of course, when your takes are not in time with each other, then comping isn't as useful, though I've used it anyway, moving things around till they more or less line up.

But any time you have done multiple takes in time with a common rhythm track, there simply is no method of working as fast, easy, simple, and effective as the comp tool. It's like the difference between creating something by way of making moulds and lost wax casting vs. high-definition 3-D printing, except that you don't get any extra hand-craftsmanship points for doing it the hard way.

If you've really tried it and rejected it, then to each his own, but for the life of me I can't see why anyone would NOT use the comp tool when it's appropriate.

Shooshie

Thanks Shooshie - I have given it a good try and it is very useful for picking the best performance of something - say vocals in a verse, or a worked out instrumental section. On the other hand "doing it the hard way" isn't that hard to me - it comes naturally. So for noodling over repeated sections and picking the best bits, and then moving them around, the "hard way" works best.

So don't get me wrong, I have used the Comp Tool and am not criticising it - its just sometimes I find it more fiddly than doing it the "hard way". As someone who trained in a studio and was used to making edits in 2 inch and quarter inch tapes, the "hard way" isn't hard at all! Also I have key commands which I am used to so I am pretty quick.

The pain is with the small play buttons in the Sequence editor so I will experiment more with comping - however comping does not work with separate tracks - only with takes. So sometimes the hard way is quicker than moving a separate track to become a new take.

[Shooshie]

Well, prior to the Comp Tool, we all did it as you describe, and still do when the Comp Tool is not applicable to the situation, so it's not a matter of familiarity. And many of us, of course, trained in tape studios with giant boards. Even razor blades, zero crossings, and splicing tape were once natural to a lot of us.

Having the Comp Tool doesn't mean that it's appropriate all the time. In fact, the majority of my audio editing does not involve the comp tool for the simple reason that it's recorded with free takes, not pinned to a beat, or it's all in separate tracks. I'm not slow or awkward at that, because I still have to use it most of the time. Just depends on the situation.

So, I don't get to use it all the time, but I sure look forward to those occasions when I can. It is just so fast! For example, I can choose individual notes that have a preferable vibrato, and add them in the time it takes to drag over them. Any part(s) of any phrase(s) can be spliced-in with a simple drag. Takes about a second. It's not always the appropriate tool, but to me it's a huge relief when it IS.

So, I'll just chalk our different preferences up to "different strokes" and leave it there.

Cheers,
Shoosh