Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Discussion of Digital Performer use, optimization, tips and techniques on MacOS.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
Post Reply
User avatar
wdegillio
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Los Angeles

Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by wdegillio »

I'm planning on retiring my Mac Pro 2.1 in the near future, and am considering getting a "current" (two year-old!!) Mac Mini; most likely the 2.6GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 with the addition of 16GB of (non-Apple) RAM. (I know- many are waiting for Apple to update the Mini; I just may not choose to wait!) I have a few questions for any of the board members running DP on the Mac Mini. Are you satisfied with the performance? What kind of track counts are you getting? I do not intend to be running huge projects with hundreds of tracks, but I do intend to use some Virtual Instruments, and am concerned about latency when tracking. I will be planning on an SSD for my boot drive, and replacing my HD's with SSD's for projects and samples over time. Are there any other issues you ran into with the Mini? Just looking for info before I take the plunge; Yes, I'm aware that some have purchased used Mac Pros (like our esteemed Moderator), but I'm just exploring all the options.
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzYInT ... 53N-Rs3c-g
Instagram - billgdegillio

2012 Mac Mini 2.3 GHz i7 (6.2)* 16 gigs RAM* OS 10.15.7* DP 11.22* MOTU M4* Scuffham S-Gear* Sibelius 8*
Xfer Records Serum & Nerve* u-he Zebra2 & Hive* NI Komplete 13* Korg Legacy Collection*
M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61* Presonus Central Station* Dynaudio BM5a* Rode NTH-100 & Grado SR225 Headphones
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by mikehalloran »

The main differences between a Mini and an iMac of any recent year are a) processor speed - the iMac is faster, b) upgradability where the Mini is better and c) video where the nod goes back to the iMac - not just the 27" screen but also the increased VRAM on its dedicated card.

Absolutely get the i7 as the FPU coprocessor makes a big difference with some functions. Likewise, the sooner you get SSDs, the quicker you will wring the maximum performance out of it.

Other than that, neither is recommended for large numbers of VIs. OTOH, a number of users have Minis and are doing well with them.

VI latency is its own issue - many threads on that. How you track, effects, routing, V-Racks, your VI libraries, input hardware etc. all apply - none of which we will know from your post.

There's no 'one size fits all' answer. It really depends on what you are doing. The Mini is no worse except that the Mac Pro and even the iMac have greater horsepower and can handle the heavier lifting. But, if your needs aren't great, there's no reason that a Mini won't perform well.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
EMRR
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:17 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by EMRR »

Check this:

http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthrea ... t=mac+mini

Pretty impressive results, overall. Unimaginable not many years ago.
I was running 229 tracks playing back with 24 more in record at 48K. Then took that same session (229 tracks) and put five plugins on each channel (low demand stuff--Digi's 7 band EQ, compressor/limiter, noise gate, RenEQ and Bombfactory 1176) and it ran without a hitch. Oh and I added four reverbs and 14 instanciations of AutoTune. More than I'd ever do on a real session. It never skipped a beat.
Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders
The Martha Bassett Show broadcast mixer
Tape Op issue 73

DP 11.31
Studio M1 Max OS12.7.3
MOTU 16A and Monitor 8
M1 Pro MBP for remotes and editing
wvandyck
Posts: 995
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:07 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: South of Woonsocket

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by wvandyck »

Not a scientific comparison, but look at the cpu numbers (top image) for my Mac Pro1,1 with 13 GB, and separate internal 7200 rpm drives for OSX 10.7/apps; and samples, when playing a test running a bunch of instances of MachFive v3. Image

Compare the same project on a 2012 i7 Mini with 16 GB RAM, and two internal SSD (one for OSX 10.9.4/apps, the other for sample libraries). The Mini is hardly breaking a sweat.
Image
2017 2.9 GHz MPB/1TB ssd; loaded 2012 i7 quadcore Mini, OS 10.15.5
DP 10.11, Logic 10.5.1, Silverface Apollo Quad/TB, K12UC, Falcon, Integra 7, MIDI guitars etc.
User avatar
Babz
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by Babz »

I have that model, with 16MB RAM, but using two 7200 internal drives, not SSD. Hard to beat in terms of bang for the buck. I don't know how it would compare coming from your model. My previous computer setup was a G5 + two external VI PCs. The Mini does all those three computers could do and more.

I haven't done huge orchestral work on it yet, but I have done pop/electronic projects with close to 100 tracks, tons of VIs (Mostly NI Kontakt, EWQLSO, FM8, Reaktor, and some Arturia synths) and the CPU meter hardly moved. I felt it could handle pretty much anything I could throw at it.

I am a real stickler for latency and feel, and I used to run my dedicated VI computers at 64 and 128 samples. Yet, oddly, I can run my buffers higher on this computer (256) and still get the same response feel. Can't imagine why that would be. I could lower it, and still hardly dent the CPU, but haven't had to so far. SSD drive would give you even stronger performance.

There are a couple of tradeoffs w/ the Mini. Not very easy to upgrade, particularly the second internal drive is hard to get at. I opted to have OWC do it for me. They have a great deal that included shipping both ways and rebates on your drive and RAM.

I also ended having to buy an external optical drive (which was like under $50 on Amazon). I was able to install software and copy files using OS X Remote Disc, but it wouldn't work when I needed to burn a disc w/ Toast.

Also, if you use multiple monitors, you need to think through your display set up. You can have one display on the HDMI port and one off the Thunderbolt port, but then what if you want to use the Thunderbolt port for drives or your audio interface? I am just using an old Dell monitor, so no way to daisy chain Thunderbolt. I am hoping the next update to the Mini will include two Thunderbolt ports.

Also, if you do a lot of video editing, you might need the heftier graphics of a 15 in. MBP, but of course that is substantially more expensive than a Mini.

We know the next update to the Mini will offer more CPU power. I am hoping it will also include two TB ports, and allow for 32 GB RAM. 16 GB has been fine for me, but would love to be able to bump it up to 32. That would be worth waiting for. New model should be out soon.

Best,
Babz
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by mikehalloran »

Not very easy to upgrade, particularly the second internal drive is hard to get at.
Well, compared to an iMac where you are using heat guns, suction cups and glue to get in and out...
I also ended having to buy an external optical drive (which was like under $50 on Amazon). I was able to install software and copy files using OS X Remote Disc, but it wouldn't work when I needed to burn a disc w/ Toast.
That's not right. An external usb optical should give you no problems with Toast 9 or later (Toast 11 works best with Mavericks). I have many optical drives and all work with no problem through usb.
You can have one display on the HDMI port and one off the Thunderbolt port, but then what if you want to use the Thunderbolt port for drives or your audio interface?
Apple makes it clear that you can daisy chain TB devices but the monitor must be the last in the chain. Some peripherals, the 828x and newer MOTU interfaces comes to mind, have only one TB port so this is an issue.

There are ways to run monitors off usb and there are old threads on this board about that.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Babz
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by Babz »

mikehalloran wrote:
I also ended having to buy an external optical drive (which was like under $50 on Amazon). I was able to install software and copy files using OS X Remote Disc, but it wouldn't work when I needed to burn a disc w/ Toast.
That's not right. An external usb optical should give you no problems with Toast 9 or later (Toast 11 works best with Mavericks). I have many optical drives and all work with no problem through usb.
But I didn't say that I had problems using an optical drive via USB. In fact, I said the opposite of that. I had problems trying to burn a disk using *OS X Remote Disc* (which uses WiFi to access the optical drive of another computer -- in my case, a MBP). What I said, was that even though OS X Remote Disc worked for copying files and installing software, I couldn't get it work with burning discs with Toast. And I spent a fair amount of time trying.

It is for this very reason that I ended up having to buy an "exteranl [USB] optical drive" -- which of course works! :) Seems clear to me in what I wrote, but apparently not. :roll:

So to clarify, I had to buy a USB optical drive in order to burn discs w/ Toast, and it works fine. But if you were hoping to get away with NOT having to buy one, relying OS X Remote Disc, in my experience you can get away with it for most tasks, but not burning discs.

Additionally, I seem to recall that Roxio has their own remote disc option as part of Toast, but I couldn't get that or OS X Remote Disc to work and ended up just buying an external USB drive for my Mini, even though for long time I was able to get away with doing most tasks using my MBP's optical drive and OS X Remote Disc via Wifi. And, as I said, an external drive wasn't very expensive. (I was able to get one much cheaper than Apple's external optical drive off Amazon. I think it was like $30.)
Apple makes it clear that you can daisy chain TB devices but the monitor must be the last in the chain. Some peripherals, the 828x and newer MOTU interfaces comes to mind, have only one TB port so this is an issue.


Yes, exactly. Which is why I mentioned you need to think things through -- for example, if you want to use the single TB port for both your audio interface and your video monitor (most of which don't have TB ports).
There are ways to run monitors off usb and there are old threads on this board about that.
Yes, and based on those threads, it doesn't look like a very good option compared to using the TB or HDMI ports.

Best,
Babz
User avatar
bayswater
Posts: 11925
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:06 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by bayswater »

Babz wrote:But I didn't say that I had problems using an optical drive via USB. In fact, I said the opposite of that. I had problems trying to burn a disk using *OS X Remote Disc* (which uses WiFi to access the optical drive of another computer -- in my case, a MBP). What I said, was that even though OS X Remote Disc worked for copying files and installing software, I couldn't get it work with burning discs with Toast. And I spent a fair amount of time trying.
I routinely burn disks with content from a Mini on my MBP over wifi. But I do it the other way around: I use the Mini as the file source by mounting the Mini's drives on the MBP desktop, and run the burn application on the MBP. Sometimes slightly slower than when the source files are on a disk directly connected to the MBP, but always works.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
User avatar
Babz
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by Babz »

Interesting, bayswater. So in that situation you're not using the Remote Disk function at all, right? You're just mounting a shared disk over the network on the MBP's desktop, then? And Toast just sees it as a connected drive. Hmmm.

I should give that a try just as an exercise to see if it work. Still, since built in optical drives are all but extinct, I'm still glad I have the external drive around. And it was a small-ticket item.

Best,
Babz
User avatar
bayswater
Posts: 11925
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:06 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by bayswater »

Babz wrote:Interesting, bayswater. So in that situation you're not using the Remote Disk function at all, right? You're just mounting a shared disk over the network on the MBP's desktop, then? And Toast just sees it as a connected drive. Hmmm.

I should give that a try just as an exercise to see if it work. Still, since built in optical drives are all but extinct, I'm still glad I have the external drive around. And it was a small-ticket item.

Best,
Babz
I don't recall if this works on the newer Minis with Toast. I haven't used Toast for a couple of years. But it certainly works with the Finder's burn function and other apps that access the DVD burner on the MBP. In any case you can create an image with Toast on the Mini and then burn that on the MBP with the Finder.

I do it this way to avoid the cost of external burners.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
User avatar
Babz
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by Babz »

OK, so I just tried it. I set up my Sharing Preferences, and was able to mount my Mini's Public Folder on the MBP's desktop. And I was able to add a folder from the Mini folder to the disk in the Toast window on the MBP. And it seemed like it was going to work, just like local files ...

But then I got some message saying certain files could not be accessed. Probably some permissions thing, but it was quite a long list and I would probably have to go through each one and do get info and change access, and I didn't want to bother doing that since I have an external burner anyway. (This was a 1.9 GB folder with hundreds of individual files in it.

So, it seems like it would work, but I would still recommend spending $25-30 for an external burner. Faster. Less hassles.

Babz
User avatar
wdegillio
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Question for users running DP on a 2012 Mac Mini

Post by wdegillio »

Many thanks to ‪Babz‬, mikehalloran‬, EMRR‬, ‪wvandyck‬, and ‪bayswater‬ for your replies to my post. You've given me plenty of food for thought; from your feedback, I feel the Mini will do what I need it to do at this time. Now I'll just try my best to hang on until the beginning of October just in case the folks at 1 Infinite Loop choose to update the Mini. (By then I will have chosen my new MOTU audio interface!) Have a great weekend!
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzYInT ... 53N-Rs3c-g
Instagram - billgdegillio

2012 Mac Mini 2.3 GHz i7 (6.2)* 16 gigs RAM* OS 10.15.7* DP 11.22* MOTU M4* Scuffham S-Gear* Sibelius 8*
Xfer Records Serum & Nerve* u-he Zebra2 & Hive* NI Komplete 13* Korg Legacy Collection*
M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61* Presonus Central Station* Dynaudio BM5a* Rode NTH-100 & Grado SR225 Headphones
Post Reply