Editing MIDI - muting individual notes

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:18 pm

bayswater wrote:Volume is not always controlled by velocity.

Really! Tell us more!!

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:19 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
bayswater wrote:Volume is not always controlled by velocity.
Really! Tell us more!!

So why would you use zero velocity to mute notes?

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:01 pm

It was one observation of a possibility. If you want me to tell you more... in a track where there are many notes, would you insert a volume change AKA continuous controller? What happens to simultaneous notes aligned with the muted note? Velocity, on the other hand, is note specific and is not a continuous controller in the same sense that volume is. To wit: the density of velocity is the same as the density of total note on and note off messages. Or do you know of another way of controlling volume?

wvandyck · Post by **wvandyck** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:48 am

Hand-in-hand with a Mute Tool/Key command per MIDI note(s), is a Velocity tool.

If MOTU implements one, then the other should be easy enough to include as well.

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:00 am

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:It was one observation of a possibility. If you want me to tell you more... in a track where there are many notes, would you insert a volume change AKA continuous controller? What happens to simultaneous notes aligned with the muted note? Velocity, on the other hand, is note specific and is not a continuous controller in the same sense that volume is. To wit: the density of velocity is the same as the density of total note on and note off messages. Or do you know of another way of controlling volume?

As per the subject (Re: Editing MIDI - muting individual notes) it's about making a MIDI note not play at all, not controlling the way it plays. All of the works-arounds, including volume control don't work well enough. Time for the Mute Tool.

stubbsonic · Post by **stubbsonic** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:04 am

Yes and yes.

It would require a pretty low-level restructuring to add a mute-state to every MIDI event. If that mute state was a more general purpose control-value (0-127)-- then it could be used for more than one function-- like a per-note controller value. If there was more than one (even just two), one could be dedicated to mute-state, and the other could be used like a secondary non-velocity per-note value. This could be used to control a synth parameter- e.g., if it was set to random it could be used to just change the quality of repeated notes.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:06 am

bayswater wrote:...it's about making a MIDI note not play at all, not controlling the way it plays.

And "not sounding" is not considered "controlling the way it plays" in your opinion? Maybe it's a matter of semantics.

Maybe not so much.

What about triggering keyswitches or other events with a silent (muted) note? You (or at least the rest of us) want to note to play but not to sound.

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:39 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:And "not sounding" is not considered "controlling the way it plays" in your opinion? Maybe it's a matter of semantics.

Yes, I would distinguish not playing a note at all from playing it but with various controls to effect what happens when it is played. A MIDI note mute tool would mean that it is not played at all.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:31 pm

So what about keyswitching? In your world muting would not accomplish muting the note for that purpose. How would you do that without sounding the note?

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:42 pm

I wouldn't mute a note used for keyswitching unless I didn't want the keyswitching to happen.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:27 pm

bayswater wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:And "not sounding" is not considered "controlling the way it plays" in your opinion? Maybe it's a matter of semantics.
Yes, I would distinguish not playing a note at all from playing it but with various controls to effect what happens when it is played. A MIDI note mute tool would mean that it is not played at all.

Seems to me like the note "not sounding" was the goal. And in many cases, it seems like setting velocities to zero would be a valid workaround. I don't get what the fuss is about, really? Until such time as MOTU includes a MIDI Mute tool, we do what we have to do. I will sometimes just quickly duplicate a take and THEN mess with it when I'm using the HBTHBT technique. (How Bout This? How Bout That?)

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:35 pm

James Steele wrote:
bayswater wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:And "not sounding" is not considered "controlling the way it plays" in your opinion? Maybe it's a matter of semantics.
Yes, I would distinguish not playing a note at all from playing it but with various controls to effect what happens when it is played. A MIDI note mute tool would mean that it is not played at all.
Seems to me like the note "not sounding" was the goal. And in many cases, it seems like setting velocities to zero would be a valid workaround. I don't get what the fuss is about, really? Until such time as MOTU includes a MIDI Mute tool, we do what we have to do. I will sometimes just quickly duplicate a take and THEN mess with it when I'm using the HBTHBT technique. (How Bout This? How Bout That?)

Yes, there are a lot of work-arounds that will do in some situations and not in others. I just use Shooshie's approach because it works in every situation even though it's a bit awkward. My point was that zero velocity is not a real and general solution, or good alternative to a note mute tool.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:40 pm

bayswater wrote:I wouldn't mute a note used for keyswitching unless I didn't want the keyswitching to happen.

Do you understand what keyswitching is? Why would you want to use a sounding note to do that? Every time you use the note the keyswitch is activated and every time the keyswitch is activated you would hear the note. I'm not really sure what you're proposing here but JS is right - it doesn't really freakin' matter as far as DP and MOTU is concerned because it it not implemented and they're gonna do what they do if they do do their voodoo that they do soooooo well!!!

Besides, your position seems... "immutable" (pun intended).

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:51 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Do you understand what keyswitching is?

Yes.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Why would you want to use a sounding note to do that?

I wouldn't.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I'm not really sure what you're proposing here

I'm not proposing anything. Just saying that I don't think zero velocity is a good way to deal with the lack of a note mute tool. Partly, because, as I said to your great amusement, velocity does not always control volume, and so, changing it's value to zero will not necessarily mute the note.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:45 pm

Obviously that depends on the MIDI instrument. All I'm saying is that it may or may not be a useful workaround for some. If not for you, fair enough. As I said, I just duplicate the take and cut notes. Who cares? Many ways to skin a cat, to borrow a barbaric figure of speech.