Timecode Sync

[swpowe]

I've mostly been in the studio but it looks like I may start to get involved with some sound on set for a small production. I'm investigating using timecode to sync between camera (or multiple cameras) and external sound. I'm wondering if any of the motu audio interfaces along with Digital Performer will allow me to do this. Basically, I want to record multiple tracks of audio that can easily be synced in post using timecode. I've done some research and I know there are some filed recorders, cameras, and timecode generators that can all be used for this but I'm trying to learn more about all the options.

Thanks.

[Shooshie]

DP and its interfaces excel at this. Just read about it in the manual(s) before buying your MIDI interface. I always used the MIDI Time Piece for that. Now, that would be the MIDI Express XT, I think, but most of MOTU's MIDI interfaces support time code sync as well as creation of SMPTE or MIDI Time Code for the purpose of striping tracks for sync, or locking into timecode signals from any other device. For example, here is a paragraph from the MOTU website regarding the 896mk3 audio interface:

• SMPTE Console software
  The included MOTU SMPTE Console™ software (for Mac OS X and Windows 7/Vista) provides a complete set of tools to generate SMPTE for striping, regenerating or slaving other devices to the computer. Like CueMix FX, the synchronization features are cross-platform and compatible with all audio sequencer software that supports the ASIO2 sample-accurate sync protocol.

There are also video interfaces, and the whole new MOTU line of audio devices that have plug-and-play integrated networking that make just about any kind of audio synchronization possible without much fuss.

I sound like a salesman, but this is just something that impresses me very much about MOTU products. I started using timecode for syncing to studio mixing boards, video productions, and multiple DAW synchronization back in the early 1990s, and like everyone I started out knowing nothing about what I was doing, just hoping that someone would know enough to make it work. But I read the manuals, and come time to do it I felt confident enough to lead the operations. MOTU's hardware and software made me look like a pro, which I was, actually, and gained me a reputation of knowing how to do the hard stuff. Of course, we all know that it was MOTU who knew how to do the hard stuff. I was just desperate enough to jump in and trust that MOTU wouldn't let me down.

Figure out your needs, then figure out whether you'll be sending or receiving (or both) the time code. Then buy your interfaces accordingly. Or use DP with other's interfaces. Read the manuals and learn how it all works. Plug it in and start striping!

Shooshie

[swpowe]

Thanks Shooshie. I've been holding off buying some new gear and now I see the new MOTU hardware. Would each of the new devices allow me to generate/sync/stripe timecode? Would you mind giving me an idea of how that might look? This is one area that I'm totally clueless. I haven't dealt with timecode or syncing devices for years!!

[mikehalloran]

I sound like a salesman,

Would each of the new devices allow me to generate/sync/stripe timecode?

I'm not seeing MIDI or SMTPE mentioned on any of the new devices. Am I missing something here?

[Shooshie]

Thanks Shooshie. I've been holding off buying some new gear and now I see the new MOTU hardware. Would each of the new devices allow me to generate/sync/stripe timecode? Would you mind giving me an idea of how that might look? This is one area that I'm totally clueless. I haven't dealt with timecode or syncing devices for years!!

Basically, you plug in a quarter-inch TR or TRS cable (guitar cable or stereo quarter inch; I'm not sure whether it matters which one) between devices that are going to be interfacing the time code. The new MOTU boxes may do that through CAT-5 (ethernet) cable, but I'm not sure about that. Anyway, you plug in the cable and open the SMPTE console. (that's an app named MOTU SMPTE Setup in your Applications Folder, and it looks like a little red video monitor)

Here's the screen that will appear:


Or if you use Clockworks in a MOTU MIDI interface, it looks like this:


From this point, you need to know some characteristics about what you're going to be syncing to. For example, does it need some free-wheeling time to sync up? What frame rate? Drop frame or not? (usually not) Master or slave? (send or receive) The latter may be as simple as deciding who will be running the show. If you are the one who is going to be starting and stopping the sequences, you need to be the master. If someone else is doing that, then they need to be the master. DP syncs almost instantly, but some video cameras and analog mixing boards can go for several seconds before getting in sync.

You'll have to read up on the rest. You simply have to know a little about this before you try it. Or if you're working with patient people, you can always do trial and error, but keep the record enabling off until you're sure what's going on. It's not rocket science, but it just helps if you know what it's doing, why it's doing that, and how it works. It's tracking a high-frequency audio signal generated by a very stable clock. The least bit of jitter (variation between the SMPTE stripe and the syncing within the device) can cause problems in the audio. Read up on it in the device manuals.

If you don't need to go "stand-alone" with an interface, you can use DP to generate the time code. You will find what you need in DP if you look up Synchronization in the manual. Also look up Slave to External Sync, and Transmit Sync.

There's only so much you can do or know until you actually see the device you're going to be syncing with. You may need its manual, or else you must depend on its operator to know. The saving grace with all this is that it's designed to work. It wants to hook up and synchronize. It's a bit of a thrill the first time you see it working.

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Would each of the new devices allow me to generate/sync/stripe timecode?

I'm not seeing MIDI or SMTPE mentioned on any of the new devices. Am I missing something here?

It's there. I looked it up on the website earlier. Well, actually Word Clock is there. You can run SMPTE through the devices by way of the SMPTE Setup app or from DP. Word Clock assures it gets there in phase.

[edit]Actually, I'm getting a sense that MOTU is incorporating something new in syncing via networks that is more-or-less automatic via AVB Ethernet. Too soon to be able to tell you how it works, as none of us have seen it yet. If SMPTE is required, DP can do that. The audio interface just acts as the conduit for the signal. I would assume that MOTU SMPTE Setup.app is included with the driver, as it is in all other MOTU audio driver installers, but again we won't know until we see it. It's certainly capable of it. MOTU may simply be trying to get away from SMPTE, DDS, ADAT, and anything else that might have a royalty attached to it, and go with an open source clocking system.

If that's the case, there still has to be provision for SMPTE to work, since 99.99% of all sync able devices to date use SMPTE, especially for video sync. For DAW to DAW sync, there are other timecode protocols that probably work a lot better than SMPTE, all included in DP and/or the MIDI and/or audio interfaces.

Anyway, as I said before, MOTU makes this stuff to work. You don't have to worry that they will put out a top-of-the-line interface that won't interface with 99% of all hardware and software! [/edit]

Shoosh

[BKK-OZ]

Apologies to the OP if this is going off in a tangent, but I am looking for some advice on sync and I thought I would lob my question in here rather than start a new thread.

I am planning for a major installation piece with 8 video screens and 10 audio channels. Everything needs to be in sync.

The audio is easy enough - I could run that straight out of my MP with my Mackie 1640i.

The video sync is a bit trickier though - my MP (new model) can only output 6 (I know, I should be satisfied with 6!) HD video streams at the same time, but my installation piece uses 8 screens. The only solution I have found so far is this MultiScreener software.

Anybody have any other suggestions on how to get 8 screens streaming HD video simultaneously?

[Tidwells@aol.com]

You might check out the triple head 2 go box. Three video outputs from one.

Doug

[BKK-OZ]

Thanx for the tip on the Matrox box, but that will only still give me 3 screens (with a stretched image display), but I need 8 concurrent HD streams.

Again, apologies to the OP for stealing some of this thread.

[Shooshie]

Might the new devices from MOTU be exactly what you're looking for?

[BKK-OZ]

Might the new devices from MOTU be exactly what you're looking for?

Not quite sure how - I don't need any more audio I/O, my problem is my need to be able to play 8 concurrent/synced video streams.

MOTU's video interfaces seem to be designed to be all about either getting uncompressed video in/out or high-quality video monitoring while editing/composing.

Unless (not for the first time!) I am missing something?