Editing Audio workflow question

[swpowe]

I'm coming from Pro Tools and there are a few things I'm really struggling with.

* Can I zoom in vertically on the wave form? I've got horizontal zoom down but vertical zoom seems to make the track bigger and I'm wondering if there's a function similar to Pro Tools where you can keep the track the same height but you actually zoom in closer on the wave form.

* How can I playback only the selection and have it stop? I'm having a hard time finding the right combination. What I'd like is to be able to have the spacebar work for play/stop toggle (this is the default) but if there is a selection can I get the spacebar to only playback from selection start to selection end? I know there's a different key command (default is command + 4) but it totally throws me to have to hit a different key combination for something I use all the time. So then I changed the shortcut for play selection to spacebar (removing it from the start/stop toggle) and it plays back how I'd like but it doesn't toggle start/stop. Hitting the spacebar just keeps playing from the selection start over and over again. Has anyone figured out a way to make this work without using multiple shortcuts?

* Can I edit the curve of the fade directly on the overview or do I have to select the fade and hit control + F to bring up the fade window? I'm used to being able to hit a key command or a different tool and dragging the curve of the fade right in the overview. Just curious if this is possible in DP.

Thanks!

[NazRat]

* Can I zoom in vertically on the wave form? I've got horizontal zoom down but vertical zoom seems to make the track bigger and I'm wondering if there's a function similar to Pro Tools where you can keep the track the same height but you actually zoom in closer on the wave form.

I think you might be talking about the zoom control on the track in the Sequence Editor - the little magnifying glass thingy after the track assignments and before the waveform area. Click-hold on the little magnifying glass and move left or right to resize the wave within the current track height.

* How can I playback only the selection and have it stop? I'm having a hard time finding the right combination.

Make a selection then command-spacebar. If you want all tracks to play, then make the selection in the timeline. The difference from the command-num4 is that the wiper/timeline doesn't follow the selection playback. Search the commands window for 'audition' as opposed to play.

* Can I edit the curve of the fade directly on the overview or do I have to select the fade and hit control + F to bring up the fade window? I'm used to being able to hit a key command or a different tool and dragging the curve of the fade right in the overview. Just curious if this is possible in DP.

You can grab the fad handle and move to create the fade and then double click inside the created fade area will bring up the fade dialog to select the curves. I think that might be what you want.

[waitsongs]

I believe NazRat means "Control-Spacebar" to playback from the insert point (cursor).

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Actually boys, OPT-SPACE BAR plays whatever is selected until the end (unless you click somewhere or start another command).

Alternately you can use the LINK MEMORY TO SELECTION. You'll have to set it up in the commands window - I use OPT-L (lowercase L). You'll see it activate in the transport window. You can toggle it on/off by hitting the selected key command again.

If you are in the sequence editor (or MIDI or TRACKS windows, etc.) and select all (whatever is showing at the time) that will playback "as selected" as well. Great for isolating parts and sections for editing.

[rickorick]

Highlight what you want to hear and use "Option Spacebar"

[waitsongs]

Yes, MLC added the best option: Activating both the "Link Playback to Memory" and "Link Selection to Memory" keys makes it most like the Pro Tools transport, where you can just hit the Spacebar to play from the cursor (insertion point in DP terms), or, if you've dragged through a selection area, will play either just the selection, or the selection plus pre and post roll if you activate those buttons too. I've had some finicky issues with this in the past, but just now trying it in DP 8.06, I'm thinking it's behaving exactly like Pro Tools, which would make me very happy.

The Option-Spacebar "option", indeed plays just the selection as well, but I find it odd that the wiper and counter don't move... it literally just auditions the audio. (And who would ever want to just listen to audio, when you can watch flashing lights and spinning numbers at the same time?)

[Armageddon]

The "Play Selection" thing was always something that seems to elude me (and thanks for the answers here), but the actual editing of the audio is another matter entirely. In most DAWS, if you non-destructively edit an audio track, it just places markers where the edits are. In DP, at least in 7.24, each edit (in the Graphic Editor window, not the Tracks window, though I guess it also applies there!) seems to create an audio sub-file in your Soundbites folder, linked to the original audio file you started with. You edit a stereo toms track just to trim off the silences and you could end up with 12 or more sub-files, not including changing your mind and extending the length of or trimming off more here and there, all of which creates a new sub-file. Then, just to be safe, you have to make sure you pick the keeper of the bunch by selecting "Select Unused Soundbites" and deleting all the other sub-files that shouldn't be there anyway! Since you're performing non-destructive edits, and since DP features one of the best unlimited Undo setups of virtually any software I've ever seen, why does it create these sub-files ... and can this be somehow turned off?

My usual M.O. in every other DAW is to perform all my non-destructive editing to get rid of silences or unwanted audio -- like editing a toms track or a snare or a guitar or whatever -- and then, once I'm satisfied with all the editing for that track, to go into the Wave Editor window and compress the audio file to get rid off the unnecessary audio/silence permanently. The whole middle step of having DP create countless sub-audio files and then making you manually go through and delete the stuff you don't need is both extremely unnecessary and counter-intuitive.

[bayswater]

Armageddon, I'm not following you. Where is DP creating addition audio files? Open a new empty project, drag in an audio file. Cut it in two places, delete the middle section, do some edge editing, some cross fades, etc. Save the project, and there is still only the one original audio file in the project folder. There will now be several Soundbites, but these are, as you say, just pointers to the audio file, indicating regions of the original audio file to be accessed on playback.

If you do some audio merging, printing, freezing, etc, you will get new audio files.

So, isn't DP behaving exactly as you would expect?

[FMiguelez]

The "Play Selection" thing was always something that seems to elude me (and thanks for the answers here), but the actual editing of the audio is another matter entirely. In most DAWS, if you non-destructively edit an audio track, it just places markers where the edits are. In DP, at least in 7.24, each edit (in the Graphic Editor window, not the Tracks window, though I guess it also applies there!) seems to create an audio sub-file in your Soundbites folder, linked to the original audio file you started with. You edit a stereo toms track just to trim off the silences and you could end up with 12 or more sub-files, not including changing your mind and extending the length of or trimming off more here and there, all of which creates a new sub-file. Then, just to be safe, you have to make sure you pick the keeper of the bunch by selecting "Select Unused Soundbites" and deleting all the other sub-files that shouldn't be there anyway! Since you're performing non-destructive edits, and since DP features one of the best unlimited Undo setups of virtually any software I've ever seen, why does it create these sub-files ... and can this be somehow turned off?

You can avoid that behaviour by unchecking the Sounbite Edge Copy (or a similar name) in the SE's minimenu. This way, next time you edge edit a SB, it won't create any copies.
But they are not new audio files anyway... They're just pointers to the parent audio file.

To get rid of silence, unused SBs, or unused parts of SBs, the Compact Project command seems to be the fastest and better choice.

[waitsongs]

You can avoid that behaviour by unchecking the Sounbite Edge Copy (or a similar name) in the SE's minimenu. This way, next time you edge edit a SB, it won't create any copies.
But they are not new audio files anyway... They're just pointers to the parent audio file.

Just beware that, with Edge Edit Copy turned off, your edits to that soundbite will be reflected everywhere else you may have used that soundbite (which can be a real shocker if it's not what you intended!).

[Armageddon]

Armageddon, I'm not following you. Where is DP creating addition audio files? Open a new empty project, drag in an audio file. Cut it in two places, delete the middle section, do some edge editing, some cross fades, etc. Save the project, and there is still only the one original audio file in the project folder. There will now be several Soundbites, but these are, as you say, just pointers to the audio file, indicating regions of the original audio file to be accessed on playback.

If you do some audio merging, printing, freezing, etc, you will get new audio files.

So, isn't DP behaving exactly as you would expect?

I think we've had (part of) this discussion before. When I edit an audio track in the Graphic Editor window (or Sequence Editor, whichever one opens upon double-clicking an audio track in the Tracks window), each edit somehow appears to create a new soundbite (in the Soundbite window) branching off from the main soundbite I'm using in said audio track. True, I never tried simply compacting the central soundbite BEFORE deleting these sub-soundbites -- it just looks like it's creating a new soundbite every time I do an edit, and not "markers", as I would expect it to behave (or have seen it behave in any other DAW), so I always assumed they were actual new soundbites -- so I have no idea whether they'd just disappear if I did that. That would make sense, I guess, except that the sub-soundbites all get highlighted when I select "Unused Soundbites", which is another reason I assumed they were new files and not just some kind of marker.

That's really it! The only real problem I have ever had with DP! If I get that sorted out, I'll happily kill my backup plan of having to snag ProTools to edit and mix audio!

You can avoid that behaviour by unchecking the Sounbite Edge Copy (or a similar name) in the SE's minimenu. This way, next time you edge edit a SB, it won't create any copies.
But they are not new audio files anyway... They're just pointers to the parent audio file.

To get rid of silence, unused SBs, or unused parts of SBs, the Compact Project command seems to be the fastest and better choice.

I'll try that! That sounds like the very thing I was trying to figure out!

I always end up actually compacting the soundbite in the built-in Wave Editor once I'm satisfied with the edits. For getting rid of silences, I like doing that by hand, especially for anything with a tricky decay (drums, acoustic sounds, etc.).

Thanks, both you guys!

[bayswater]

I think we've had (part of) this discussion before. When I edit an audio track in the Graphic Editor window (or Sequence Editor, whichever one opens upon double-clicking an audio track in the Tracks window), each edit somehow appears to create a new soundbite (in the Soundbite window) branching off from the main soundbite I'm using in said audio track.

Yes, that has to happen. Otherwise DP has no way to know what part of an audio file to play. If you cut or edge edit (really the same thing-- all you are doing is defining a region to be played), you get new soundbites, but not new audio files. The new Soundbite is just a new pointer to the original audio. I suppose DP could get rid of unused Soundbites as you go along, but I wouldn't like it to do that.

[Armageddon]

Yes, that has to happen. Otherwise DP has no way to know what part of an audio file to play. If you cut or edge edit (really the same thing-- all you are doing is defining a region to be played), you get new soundbites, but not new audio files. The new Soundbite is just a new pointer to the original audio. I suppose DP could get rid of unused Soundbites as you go along, but I wouldn't like it to do that.

I always equate "soundbite" with "audio file", as in, every bit of audio you import or record into a DP project is a "soundbite", it shows up in your Soundbites window that way (and it's the only part of DP that allows you to name, get rid of or organize your project audio files!), therefore, every new soundbite equals a new audio file. I see what you've been saying and can see where I've been confused. It seems a little counter-intuitive for it to be set up that way -- audio source files should be Source Files (or something) and soundbites (what I assume is what ProTools calls "regions") should be separate from those. I mainly rely on the Soundbites window to tell me what audio files I have or don't have in play or at my disposal during a project (I can also see the idea behind having these soundbite regions handy, as waitsongs pointed out, in case you want to use that edited chunk of audio elsewhere in the same or different track). And considering I'm the only one who seems to have had the difficulty discerning between "soundbite" and "audio file", I'm sure it's something I will just have to get used to. There should be a way to display (and edit) the list of actual audio source files separate from Soundbites, though -- that would be a huge help!

[bayswater]

There should be a way to display (and edit) the list of actual audio source files separate from Soundbites, though -- that would be a huge help!

I agree. It would have been a lot easier for everyone if MOTU had just called Soundbites Regions like everyone else.

I think you get pretty close to seeing a list of audio files if you set the Soundbites window to View By: Filename. It will display a hierarchical list of Files and Soundbites with flippy triangles so you can hide the Soundbites, and just have a list of Files. I'm not sure this a purely a list of source files: it will at least show files from Bounces, Merges, etc.

[NazRat]

Pro Tools changed from 'regions' to 'clips'. Who knows why? It must have been an upper level management or marketing decision. Setting clip volume sounds sexier than setting region volume. Though I think I like soundbite volume best.