Can´t use 2 MIDI controllers when in "Multi Record" mode.

[Thomas82]

Hello!

I´m trying out DP8 for the first time. I can´t find any information anywhere about how to use 2 MIDI controllers when recording several MIDI tracks at the same time. I´m using a roland RD700 digital piano and a korg nanoKONTROL2 to control the modulation, exp etc.

It must be possible to do this right? I have been using Logic Pro X and Cubase 7 before where multi record mode does not exist. I simply record enable the tracks I want to record to and use both my piano and other MIDI controllers simultaneously.

In DP8 I was trying the "MIDI device groups", but noticed that´s only for output MIDI. Is there something similar for MIDI inputs?

Best regards
/Thomas

[stubbsonic]

As I understand it, when Multi-Record is off, then any MIDI sources recognized in Apple's Audio/MIDI Setup utility (AMS) are "listened to" as in OMNI mode. If you arm a track, it will record inputs from multiple sources and rechannelize to the destinations output.

If you enable Multi-Record (Studio menu), now you can take each of your MIDI tracks and click on the Input column in the tracks overview window, and select both the source device and source channel.

[Thomas82]

Yes, but the problem is, when in "Multi Record" mode, I can only choose ONE MIDI controller at a time per MIDI channel. I would like to record to 3 MIDI channels simultaneously using both my RD700 and KORG nanoKONTROL2 MIDI controller. But I can only choose ONE of those controllers in the MIDI input column per MIDI channel. I need all the MIDI channels to read from, in my case, "Fireface 400 Port 1-1" AND "NanoKONTROL 2-1". Just the same way it works when "Multi Record" is set to off.

[HCMarkus]

Not in front of DP at the moment but, if I understand what you are trying to achieve, this should work:

Enable MIDI multi-record and create tracks with the corresponding inputs and outputs. Set up as many tracks as you need - tracks with different MIDI inputs can be assigned to the same MIDI output - and merge tracks with the same MIDI outputs later if desired.

You may need more tracks than you thought. Use a template, and you can have it all set up in advance.

[stubbsonic]

I wonder if something could be done in the Bundles window? Or perhaps using with DP's Interapplication MIDI to bus MIDI out from multiple tracks to a single track input.

I can understand their wanting to avoid the feedback loop potentials, but the OP's goal seems like a pretty typical kind of application.

Still, merging 3 tracks is a pretty quick little boompa-teeboop.

[Shooshie]

So, you basically want omni control on each channel. It would be nice if MIDI Device Groups could be used for inputs as well as outputs.

The way I got around that problem many years ago was with the MIDI Time Piece, which allowed me to merge cables and channels in any fashion that I wanted. I have not needed to do that in a long time, so I can't tell you if it still allows you to do it. It seems like the framework was there in Clockworks, the software for MOTU's MIDI interfaces, but it wasn't working for a while on the MTP-AV. I think it's working again, but you'd have to test it.

In any case, your best option will probably be to merge MIDI signals at the hardware level.

Shooshie

[labman]

So, you basically want omni control on each channel. It would be nice if MIDI Device Groups could be used for inputs as well as outputs.

Shooshie

Have wanted that for years Shoosh!

[NazRat]

Maybe a third party app like MIDI Translator can help.

http://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator

[stubbsonic]

It would be cool if in DP, they would implement an updated MIDI tab in the bundles window allowing a similar mapping to what shooshie referred to with the routing of a MTP.

But there's probably some huge complication I'm not thinking of that would make it difficult to either implement or use.

Alternatively, adding some additional functionality and features to the MIDI insert plug-ins would work as well. Where possible, having some filters and a little bit of routing options would be cool. E.g. "FILTER & SEND" could have the ability to select some part of the MIDI track to send to another track's input; and "MERGE SOURCES" would listen to several selected source tracks and bring all that data into the current track.

[Thomas82]

So, you basically want omni control on each channel. It would be nice if MIDI Device Groups could be used for inputs as well as outputs.
Shooshie

Yes, that´s exactly what I want =).

HCMarkus - That´s a smart temporarily solution. But also quite time-consuming and clumsy for my taste =). Thanks anyway!

I guess I´ll have to use a third party solution for the moment. But hopefully DP will change this in time, and make it something similar to the way Cubase or Logic Pro handle this. (except that Logic Pro really sucks if you want to use 2 MIDI controllers to play on 2 different MIDI channels, a complete mess in the environment is needed to make that work. In that situation DP8 is perfect. But cubase can handle all of these situation perfectly, but sadly Cubase 7 perform very poorly on my system for some reason I have no Idea about).

Anyway thanks for your answers!

[HCMarkus]

That´s a smart temporarily solution. But also quite time-consuming and clumsy

I do hear ye, but that's what templates are about... building what you need in advance - one time - and then enjoying the fruits of that investment over and over again as you work. And you could use a track folder to house each group of MIDI tracks, so at least it wouldn't LOOK clumsy (until you open a bunch of folders).

I'm curious as to what you do, specifically, with your multi-input-output approach. Would you mind describing it?

[Thomas82]

Yes, it´s very simple. It´s not about multi output, only multi input. For example, when using LASS, and I need to get an idea of, for example, how it will sound playing Violins 1 A,B,C, and Violas, A,B,C together, I would like to be able to just play it first and listen (and maybe also set the auto arranger in LASS to ON temporarily to play some chords). Then I record them one by one. Also sometimes I just want to stack a bunch of instrument for the same reason, like harp, celesta and maybe glockenspiel. And after listening, record them one by one again as usual.

That´s the only and very simple reason =)

I´m sure your idea will work just fine after a while setting it all up. I guess I´m just too lazy

[Armageddon]

I've never bothered selecting multiple MIDI controllers before and wasn't aware this was even an option. Insofar as I know, if you have multiple MIDI controllers switched on and hooked up to your computer (and set up in Audio MIDI Setup) inside DP, they both simply work; you can use either one or possibly both in tandem to record a MIDI track. As for specific assignments for Multi-Record, I've only ever done this once, by using a 61-key and an 88-key controller simultaneously to record an instance of B4-II as a "dual manual" organ. And if I remember correctly, I was able to set the whole thing up in the Tracks window -- the top B4-II keyboard was "B4-II 1" (Channel 1) in the MIDI pulldown and the bottom was "B4-II 2" (Channel 2) and all I had to do from there was assign MIDI inputs, so each channel had its own specific controller. Worked flawlessly and took little to no effort to set it up.

[Thomas82]

Armageddon, You completely misunderstood my problem.

[Shooshie]

One such application of this which I remember well was when I was using Yamaha Disklaviers. Our show had five Disklaviers playing at once. The original Disklavier (early 1990s) sent separate MIDI for the pedals. The reason for this was that the high-performance pedal mode generated a LOT of data when you pushed down the pedal (controller #64 as continuous data), and the keyboard produced a lot of data, and this was in the days of the infamous "MIDI Logjam," when computers were slow and easily overwhelmed by tons of continuous data.

There were several huge technological issues presented by this method, sending keyboard on channel 1 and pedal on channel 3. Those problems aren't relevant to this discussion and would be difficult to explain, but suffice to say that I began petitioning MOTU for some changes in DP, and 6 years later they finally changed the whole app to accommodate those problems.

But the easier problem presented by this two-channel approach was the fact that I needed for both channels to arrive in one track. DP cannot record two channels on one track (nor should it have to). So I used the Clockworks software for the MIDI Time Piece to convert channel 3 to Channel 1, and it put the pedal and keyboard back together as one track (which it should have done in the first place). I don't remember how I worked it going out the other way, from DP to the piano. I'd have to experiment to see if it requires anything special. I think it actually handled the pedals and keyboard properly if both were sent to the piano on channel 1.

Going back even further, before the MIDI Time Piece, there was a time when MIDI interfaces only had one or two ports. You could daisy chain some MIDI devices, but that began to create latency if you went too far. So, I had to acquire a MIDI Merge box to operate two input devices simultaneously on the same cable, different channels, to control separate tracks in DP while performing live.

MIDI Merge is probably the answer to the original poster's problems, whether it's done at the MIDI Time Piece (MIDI Express these days), or in a piece of dedicated hardware. I'm guessing that MIDI Solutions still makes a MIDI Merge box. Someone surely does. I'd probably sell mine if someone were desperate.

Shooshie