Method for auto-correcting MIDI delay?

[MikeTa]

Hi, newbie here with a question. My new home studio setup is experiencing quite a big delay from hitting notes on my keyboard (Novation ReMote 25SL) to the notes showing up in DP8. It's about 130/480 of a beat !!! I know I need to figure this out and make some changes, but I'm not a teckie so it might be a while, and meanwhile I really just want to make some music. Anyone know if there is a way to have DP automatically shift all incoming MIDI data 130/480ths of a beat to the left? Thanks,
Mike

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Are you playing VIs? If so, change the buffer size (audio driver under Audio setup) to a low #. When editing and playing back for mixing, set it back to a higher #. I use 256 for recording and 1024 for mixing.

[labman]

Yes! What MLC said. We do the same buffer swaps. 256 to 1024.

We were twins separated at birth.

[MikeTa]

Thanks guys, but that is not the problem I am having. Yeah, there is a bit of latency but I can deal with that. What this is, is I'm playing on a MIDI controller keyboard, and the input data is not getting to DP8 on time. It is both audibly -- and visually, when I look at the MIDI data (notes) in the track -- more than a 16th note delayed. 130 of 480 ticks, ish. In other words, if I record and just hit a note on the controller right on the beat to a drum sample, when I look at the notes in the MIDI track, they are all slid 130/480ths too far to the right, and play out of time (delayed) that much. So it's not VI latency - it's something else. I don't know what it is yet, but what I was trying to find was some easy way to have the MIDI data in a track auto-shift to the left on entry.

Also I just realized I am posting this in the wrong thread. This is on a Win 7 system, not Mac. And it appears in the Windows version that there is no way to change buffers and so forth in audio/hardware setup. In fact I cannot find any controls for impacting latency. It just sort of sends you over to Windows itself to sort out the latency issues in Windows' audio driver pane. A bit different...and not as user friendly.

[NazRat]

Just a shot in the dark - any plugs on the master?

[bayswater]

I recall some sort of MIDI-Audio offset option, but I can't find it now. Maybe it was in a previous version of DP, or maybe Setup>Configure Audio System>Fine Tune Audio I/O Timing was it. It shouldn't be necessary if all the clocks are working properly. Or, it might be set to offset your audio already. See p26 of the Getting Started manual.

[HCMarkus]

Check Preferences. There is a function that syncs MIDI to the time notes are heard, so it delays MIDI in accordance with the Buffer size. Deselect this function. Not in front of DP now, so cana't give specifics, but this could be the issue.

[williemyers]

Check Preferences. There is a function that syncs MIDI to the time notes are heard, so it delays MIDI in accordance with the Buffer size. Deselect this function. Not in front of DP now, so cana't give specifics, but this could be the issue.

HC, when you get back to DP, could you give a bit more info on where to locate that preference? thanks

[MikeTa]

OP here.

HC's little nugget is located at:

preferences and settings -> MIDI solo and patch through
clicking off the "sync recorded MIDI to patch through" button does do what HC said.

It improved my situation, but only somewhat. I was still dropping MIDI notes around 60/480ths of a beat too late. Finally got an idea and unplugged my Novation MIDI controller and dragged the computer over to my Yamaha digital piano in the dining room. Voila, no more MIDI delay. Now I just have to get my hands on a new MIDI controller that performs correctly like the Yamaha piano. Have never had good luck with Novation.

[miketownsmotu]

Hi,
Please click the link below and follow the Sl Mk II trouble shooting guide, hopefully this helps your issue.

http://us.novationmusic.com/answerbase/ ... ting-guide

If still in need of help please contact Novation support.

[dave pine]

as far as Vi's are concerned... the best way still, if your VI has a stand alone version, or even if it does not, you can use another VI standalone and then switch after it's recorded, is to use the AIC buss...
so in DP input from controller.... out to AIC buss 1, if you don't see AIC buss you just have to go into audio/ MIDI and set it up..... then in your stand alone VI set the incoming MIDI to AIC buss 1..... no latency, and you can still run DP at 1024

[dewdman42]

this sounds like almost certainly a bug in the Novation USB driver. Use the MIDI out from the novation instead of USB and I bet you won't have the delay. Even better if you use a MOTU MIDI interface, presuming they are using MIDI timestamping on the windows versions of their MIDI drivers. That's a question for MOTU.

The MIDI delay he is talking about has NOTHING to do with audio latency or syncing the sample accurate MIDI, etc. The audio latency will make all audio heard delayed a small, but consistent amount. But there can also be inconsistent MIDI delays, which has more to do with the way windows handles hardware events. Its more like Jitter. MOTU MIDI interfaces have technology in them that can capture the correct time stamp and include that with the MIDI event. It may still arrive late into DP, but it will end up in the track at the right place. This is not DP's fault, its WIndows OS fault, and some MIDI drivers are better then others. One of the main reasons I switched to Mac was because of this kind of problem with MIDI, I have never had these kinds of problems on the mac because of CoreMidi and the way all MIDI devices conform to that standard, it generally just performs better than almost everything on windows. Sonar, Cubase and other windows DAW's have dealt with this for years, some better then others. Once upon a time I was very frustrated by Cubase's MIDI timing. They've all done everything they can, but basically there is only so much they can do because of the way Windows is architected. Some of them tapped into the DirectX Api to get tighter MIDI, but this is not always there.

Actually back in the win95 days there were ways to have much tighter MIDI drivers, but with 32bit and beyond they are all subject to equal timesharing with other processes in windows, and so basically MIDI events get to the DAW when they get to the DAW.

Like I said, some USB drivers might be better then others, I'm personally a fan of MOTU MIDI interfaces, especially if you're gonna use DP, but check with MOTU to make sure on the windows side they use the MIDI timestamping features all the way from driver to DP.