Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

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FMiguelez
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Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by FMiguelez »

Hello.

After years of procrastination, I finally hired someone to digitize all my LP collection.
I just received the first badge, and some of it sounds worse than I thought... Some LPs are too old and had many plays in the past. I hear LOTS of noise and crackles. They REALLY need a good clean-up, otherwise I won't be able to listen to them.

What's the best tool for this job? I was looking at Waves' Restoration bundle, but it consists of 5 plug-ins that apparently have some overlap. They list X-Click and X-Crackle as tools for repairing vinyl, but are they supposed to be used together in series?
http://www.waves.com/bundles/restoration

I was hoping for something simpler, or at least something that is made of only one component. If it must be complex to give great results, I could live with that, though.

Any suggestions?

On a different note, and I might get lynched for saying this, but I guess I'll never understand what was so great about "the sound" of LPs. They sound like crap, they're noisy as hell, they are too delicate, require constant maintenance, and they last for only a few plays. I'm so glad we got rid of them! I mean, there's just no comparison to a good old CD. Or am I missing something??? :surrender:

Thanks!
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by rnappi »

I don't own it and can't personally vouch for it, but Izotope RX3 has gotten some great reviews. AudioDeluxe is having a summer sale with $70 off regular price:http://audiodeluxe.com/products/izotope-rx3

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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by oldecuriosity »

I used to use Bias SoundSoap Pro and got good results for the same purpose. It's been reborn by a company called Soundness, though I haven't used that particular version.

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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by mikehalloran »

SoundSoap 3 is a one trick pony but that is what it was designed for. $99 through the App Store. If you ever owned v.1 or 2, it's a $49 upgrade from the developer. I've no idea if a demo is possible.

Many reasons why I never went for my upgrade but the biggest is that, with Izotope RX 3, you do not need it. Yes it's more expensive but there are more tools and they work quite well for cleaning up all sorts of weird anomalies besides vinyl.

If you can find a spot of the noise and rumble, you can ask it to learn and create its own filter with the DeNoise tool (SoundSoap does this also). The additional tools include Hum Removal for getting rid of 50/60Hz hum and its harmonics (the first time you clean up a track with noisy Stratocaster, you'll be hooked), DeClick and DeCrackle tools are great on vinyl. DeClip and Spectral Repair for garbage audio that was poorly recorded plus a few more goodies.

I use the Advanced version to tweak things a bit more. Frankly, most users don't need it. Here's the comparison:
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/aud ... omparison/

I now have a little side business restoring cassette tape audio to levels of clarity that the original recordings never had. RX 3 is my weapon of choice. You can download a demo from Izotope.com and try it out.
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by cuttime »

Wow. That is a LOT of work. I hope these are collectible recordings with no digital equivalents, because I can't imagine this being a cost effective endeavor, at least not in the US. Anyway, I have gotten some very good results with ClickRepair ( http://clickrepair.net/ ). I used it on some horrific 78s that my dad recorded at home and was very impressed. Also, at least at the time, there was a demo period to try.
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by mhschmieder »

iZotope RX3 is expensive but miraculous.

Even brand-new vinyl can have issues.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I had to run Ram Mono (not available on CD) through RX3 to remove some clicks and other noises.

I have done this many times in the past with other tools, and it was laborious and incomplete.

With RX3, you would never know there had been a problem; I would challenge anyone to detect any artifacts after the cleaning job it does.

To my ears, vinyl is WAY WAY WAY better than CD's. At least, if it's virgin, and most US pressings after the '74 oil crisis were recycled and included actual garbage. I bought UK and other foreign pressings when I could; they could afford virgin because they had smaller runs.

I don't even have a high-end turntable anymore and can STILL tell the difference. I got rid of my Rega glass turntable when I moved to CA from MA, thinking the earthquakes here would make it impossible to listen to vinyl. :-) After it became clear most stuff will never get issued on CD, I broke down and bought a Stanton belt drive turntable. I didn't even splurge on a Grado cartridge or other pro audio upgrade.

The first thing I notice with vinyl is that I feel like I'm in the room with the musicians. It sounds three dimensional, much more dynamic, etc.

Now that I've got your attention, here's the funny part: this qualitative difference remains even after I digitize the material! And all along, I am playing through A/D and D/A round-trip converters as I got rid of my hi fi system a few years ago due to being tired of so much cable switching between "home listening" and studio work (I rarely do the former).

So, what this really tells us is that most vinyl is mastered better than most CD's. This, in fact, is why a lot of musicians have returned to vinyl as an option. Not so much due to trends, or certain genres, or what have you. It's one of the weapons against the Loudness Wars.
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by cuttime »

FMiguelez wrote:
On a different note, and I might get lynched for saying this, but I guess I'll never understand what was so great about "the sound" of LPs. They sound like crap, they're noisy as hell, they are too delicate, require constant maintenance, and they last for only a few plays. I'm so glad we got rid of them! I mean, there's just no comparison to a good old CD. Or am I missing something??? :surrender:

Thanks!
But don't you miss that "warm" analogue sound? Ha! I agree for the most part, but having been a record collector (hoarder, junker, pack rat) for most of my life, I can say that all LPs are not created equally. The quality of the vinyl can make a dramatic difference in the quality of the recording. For those who remember the oil embargo of the US in the '70s-record companies were actually recycling vinyl to re-press LPs. Now that fossil fuels are again premium, I'm sure the same thing can happen, even though the new vinyl mastering plants claim to cater to audiophile markets. I remember buying records as a kid that actually had chunks of grit and garbage embedded in them, and they sounded like crap from day one. And don't get me started on the bizarre pseudoscience of record cleaning, cartridges, and styli. Anyone remember DiscWasher D3 fluid? The company claimed that D3 fluid had less dry residue than distilled water-how is that even possible? Yet, I bought many a bottle of the stuff.

Then, there were the direct to disc companies (not to be confused with crappy DVD releases) like Sheffield Labs that released some sonic masterpieces that sounded better than any digital recording to this day, essentially using the same technology that Edison was using with his wax cylinders.

So yeah, I really don't miss the heavy, massive, time-consuming beasts, but in the future, when all of our hard drives, flash drives, cloud drives, optical discs and holographic memory chips have failed or become obsolete, something tells me the only thing left will be those annoying vinyl discs.
Last edited by cuttime on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by cuttime »

M.Sch. and I were cross posting. I'll be quiet now.
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by mhschmieder »

No problem -- it's good to have my memories reinforced, because I often feel lonely in my memories at my advanced age and start to question them since so many others do (no, I don't mean Alzheimer's, I just mean the tendency of the young to dismiss what their elders say as being exaggerated or false memories).
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by labman »

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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by bayswater »

FMiguelez wrote:On a different note, and I might get lynched for saying this, but I guess I'll never understand what was so great about "the sound" of LPs. They sound like crap, they're noisy as hell, they are too delicate, require constant maintenance, and they last for only a few plays. I'm so glad we got rid of them! I mean, there's just no comparison to a good old CD. Or am I missing something???
I agree, although there are a few albums I have where the stylus noise seems to create a 3D space that the music sits in nicely. Otherwise, good riddance.

When I digitized the few vinyl LPs I couldn't replace with CD or iTunes, I found the old Soundsoap app (version 2 I think) was OK for the purpose. As you say, the albums don't sound that great in the first place, so getting really clinical with them didn't make much sense. In a few cases, I applied a touch of Aphex Aural Exciter after the noise reduction.
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by FMiguelez »

cuttime wrote:Wow. That is a LOT of work. I hope these are collectible recordings with no digital equivalents, because I can't imagine this being a cost effective endeavor, at least not in the US.
Hmmmm... Now you got me thinking...

Most of these LPs, as far as I can tell, were like some kind of "special release" of preexisting recordings wrapped in these collections. There´s the famous Prokofiev Piano Concerto by Martha Argerich, for instance. I guess I could (for the remaining LPs) see if I can get them in CD or via iTunes store, but that would be a lot of work... And it wouldn't be necessarily cheaper.


I'm liking the iZotope RX3 Advanced plug-in! Thanks for that recommendation!

I have two more related questions:
1.- I thought processing the digitized LPs was a set-it-once-and-forget-it kind of thing.
Can I use a Preset and process them all with that, or is would this job require different settings for each recording?
I mean, some LPs were more damaged than others, but would they require totally different settings, or can it be done in by batches?

2.- The RX3 Advanced ain't cheap!!! So, if I'm going to buy a noise-reduction plug-in, I want to make sure I can use it for other things too.
This plug seems to be so great! Can you tell me if this tool is also apt for other jobs, such as getting rid of mouth noises from singers, background noise, etc?

If this plug in is THE plug-in to have, then I wouldn't mind the steep price.


Thank you all for your illuminating responses 8)
Last edited by FMiguelez on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by FMiguelez »

cuttime wrote: But don't you miss that "warm" analogue sound? Ha! I agree for the most part, but having been a record collector (hoarder, junker, pack rat) for most of my life, I can say that all LPs are not created equally.
That's the thing!

I'm not sure I even know (or remember) that "warm" analogue sound. I listened to these LPs all day long when I was a kid, but I never had a reliable listening environment other than the old house's living room and my dad's domestic entertainment center (which consisted of an 8 track player, a vinly-LP player and AM/FM radio). Afterwards, I got my own playback system, but it was a cheap LP player, and the listening was done in my bedroom.
Suddenly, when I moved to the USA, then I started buying CDs, which I didn't listen to in ideal environments either, so I never noticed any big differences in the sound (other than the obvious no noise and better overall quality).

I suppose that to make a good comparison I would need to have a GREAT and well made LP, with a nice system with a nice stylus, and in my current studio room. I'll keep my ears open when I start doing the LP cleaning and processing, but so far, I'm not very impressed by the LP sound... Once I clean them, so I can start focusing on the music, I'll try to make A/B comparisons... Perhaps I'll notice something.
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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by Shooshie »

I use Waves noise reducing software. I have the "X" series, and Z-Noise, and I rarely encounter anything they won't take care of.

In addition, I have Izotope RX3, and in the past I have owned SoundSoap. SoundSoap worked a little like Waves X-Noise, but I never really found it to be all that effective. Really, I never liked Soundsoap all that well. Z-Noise is a far better product than either SoundSoap or X-Noise, and I think Z-Noise has surpassed X-Noise to the point that it should be incorporated into the bundle, and X-noise should be dropped. The other X-series plugins are very effective for their specific purposes.

I have used RX3 only a couple of times, but it has a learning curve that I simply haven't tackled yet. I got adequate results from it, but no doubt I'd get better results if I learned all its tricks. Instead, I just keep using Z-Noise from Waves simply because I know it and because it does a superb job. One day I'll find something that causes me to learn Izotope's RX3, and then I'll probably start getting my money's worth from it.

Waves' Z-Noise continues to be my recommendation until I do that. It's fairly simple to use, and it adapts to changing noise patterns without your having to do anything. It functions in-line as a plugin; there is no external processing involved as with RX3.

X-Click, X-Crackle, and maybe even X-Hum would be good for cleaning records. Mainly X-Click and X-Crackle. They are extremely easy to use. I haven't had need for their particular functions in several years, but I remember them being totally effective.

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Re: Please recommend a great plug-in to clean LPs

Post by Shooshie »

FMiguelez wrote:On a different note, and I might get lynched for saying this, but I guess I'll never understand what was so great about "the sound" of LPs. They sound like crap, they're noisy as hell, they are too delicate, require constant maintenance, and they last for only a few plays. I'm so glad we got rid of them! I mean, there's just no comparison to a good old CD. Or am I missing something??? :surrender:
I think it depends on what you do with them. For classical recordings, CDs are hard to beat. But I always liked LPs, too.

I had a system, however, that enabled me to capture a new LP on its first play, and I never played it again. I had a Nakamichi Dragon tape deck, which was easily the world's best cassette tape recorder at the time. It monitored the tape heads and kept them aligned in real time, and it allowed you to set it for the perfect bias of each tape when recording. With perfect alignment between channels, it enabled Dolby-C to work magic. When recording a new LP, I could switch back and forth to monitor the source or the tape, and aside from the slight delay that told you when the tape was being monitored, it was virtually impossible to identify which you were hearing by sound alone. So, I played the tapes over and over, but left the vinyl in its sleeve. Most of my LPs after 1982 were played only once.

That said, I think there is a reason why vinyl is "warmer" for pop music. Turn it up enough, and you get feedback through the turntable. The record itself, after all, is an excellent reverberator of sound waves. So, when playing loud pop music on vinyl, it was easy to get some "overdrive" that reinforced the existing sound.

I recorded my LPs with the speakers turned off, then used the tape for playback from then on. That way, I never got any feedback effects at all. Yes, I know that theoretically it's possible to get feedback through tape, too, but I never experienced that; ever.

As a musician, I belonged to a group for whom listening to classical music was serious business. We tended to have high-end systems and listened to them at "podium" levels; that is, we played them at the levels you'd hear if you were standing on the podium conducting an orchestra. If you've never done that, the experience is... well... unlike anything else in the world. But when you play classical music at a loud enough level, you hear everything; its beauty and the genius of its construction become more apparent. Pops and clicks at those levels were horrendous. That's why I sought a "perfect" playback system and ended up with the Nakamichi Dragon. Plus, I was able to use it to record live performances, and the results were as good as 15 ips reel-to-reel.

Funny thing; these days I hardly listen to anything outside of mp3 formats, except for music that I make myself, or other people's live music. Not sure what happened. I think I got tired of keeping up with technology. Also, when you make your own music, the listening is only a part of the overall experience. It's the other stuff that really attracts me to music these days — the dialog you're having with the composer, and/or the musical camaraderie with the other performers. Then there is music like that of Bach, where you learn something every time you play it. Well, sorry for the tangent. I guess we were talking about LPs, weren't we?

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