Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

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MDesigner
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Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by MDesigner »

Hi guys,

I've been a Cubase user for the past three years (and Logic Pro before that). I'm toying with the idea of switching to DP. I've got quite a few years experience scoring for video games, but I'm expanding to film/TV lately, and I've been hearing DP works very well for that medium.

The thing is, I'm always working and on a deadline, so I'm looking for THE fastest possible way to learn DP. I open it now and it looks pretty daunting. :) Lots of tiny buttons everywhere! Are the DP tutorial videos (shown when you start the app) the best route? The thing is, I think the shorter the better. I almost need a super quick video saying "here's where you add VSTs, here's how you route MIDI tracks to those VSTs, here's how you..." - a quick rundown.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by cuttime »

Plug in wet-ware module 23.45678 B. Upload MTU6738 to Auditory Cortex. View

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8hyTW ... G4nz2jZaAg

Look at Help Menu.
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by MDesigner »

Thanks!
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by Michael Canavan »

Two biggest learning curves IMO coming from an object oriented linear sequencing DAW like Cubase or Logic is Chunks, and the way DP handles MIDI.

Chunks are completely unique to DP, and Markers play a huge roll in DP compared to the arbitrary use of them in DAWs like Logic. Logic relies on the standard Object orient approach to MIDI as in MIDI data in the arrangement can be sliced, colored and glued together etc. as if the data didn't all exist on the same timeline. DP treats MIDI data like a stream. There is a sort of parcelling of data done in the Tracks Overview, but it's not like Cubase, Logic, Sonar etc. Markers take the roll in a Sequence of selection, along with other methods.

Chunks are what make DP so useful for video/film work, and what makes it useful for all kinds of things really. I would start on them to make sure it really hits home. It's definitely one of those features that sets DP apart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAPbm2k ... vC-CjtB6vf

Most other things are going to be a matter of "where is that common thing?"

Some other differences:
DP uses separate MIDI tracks for virtual instruments, so a basic virtual instrument set up is a MIDI track and a VI track, which works fine for bouncing, to bounce to audio you either freeze, bounce or add an audio track and record the VI onto that track. Weird at first, but the routing buss wise is far better than Logic's because of this.

Since you posted this on the Mac OS side I'll assume you're using OSX, DP will give you better performance especially at lower latencies than Cubase.

DP uses the Audio MIDI Setup, so everything is properly named, no hoops like in Logic, or Live etc.

DP is stable. Since this is a DP centric forum I don't feel like a jerk for posting this, but the list of bugs and issues with Cubase has always been a huge deterrent to me using it, I'm not willing to pay for Nuendo just to get stability. That's going to be a plus after maybe some hiccups setting it up and getting used to it.

The "Song" window is going to be confusing if you think it's necessary, but don't get strung out thinking that's true, there are plenty of ways of doing the same thing with Chunks so a lot of people never use it. I rarely do.

Every DAW has it's odd thing or two. In Logic you have essentially two mixers, the Mixer page and the Environment mixer. In DP you have essentially two Arrange pages, the Tracks Overview and the Sequence Editor. As the names imply, the Tracks Overview is a bulk editing type window, moving whole parts around etc. and the Sequence Editor is more for doing surgical work, automation etc.

Basically don't get strung out on the differences, attack them first and the rest of the program isn't that
far away from any other sequencer.
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by MDesigner »

Very helpful post, thanks Michael! Been using Cubase for a few years now, and while I have enjoyed it quite a bit more than Logic, there are certainly bugs. The video engine in Cubase is absolutely horrid. In Cubase 6 it caused lockups. Now in Cubase 7, a friendly dialog says "Waiting for video service.." to which you have to respond by clicking "abort," then you're pretty much stuck to having to restart Cubase anyway. And yes, latency is not that great, though it should be on my 8 core 2.66GHz Mac Pro with 32GB RAM.

Lately, Cubase and VE Pro are not playing nice. When I load up a Cubase project, it doesn't reliably send MIDI volume/pan signals to VE Pro to set all the instruments to their proper levels. This is extremely frustrating and a huge productivity killer. So I'm gonna give DP a shot and see how it goes. Also I'm doing more film work lately, and the chunks feature looks amazing. No more having multiple Cubase project files for one film and switching between them.

I'll check out the MOTU TV videos too.

One immediate question (comparing to Cubase): how do I get multiple audio outs from a multi-timbral VST like Kontakt or VE Pro? For instance, in Cubase I add Kontakt to the VST rack, create several MIDI tracks (on incremental channels) routing into Kontakt. Then in the Kontakt VST rack I say "activate audio outs" and it creates 16 stereo tracks where Kontakt routes its audio out to. I can then take those stereo tracks and route them straight to the stereo out, or FX tracks (reverb), etc. How is this done in DP? DP doesn't seem too intuitive, unfortunately. I couldn't even figure out how to change a MIDI track's MIDI channel.
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by Michael Canavan »

MDesigner wrote: One immediate question (comparing to Cubase): how do I get multiple audio outs from a multi-timbral VST like Kontakt or VE Pro? For instance, in Cubase I add Kontakt to the VST rack, create several MIDI tracks (on incremental channels) routing into Kontakt. Then in the Kontakt VST rack I say "activate audio outs" and it creates 16 stereo tracks where Kontakt routes its audio out to. I can then take those stereo tracks and route them straight to the stereo out, or FX tracks (reverb), etc. How is this done in DP? DP doesn't seem too intuitive, unfortunately. I couldn't even figure out how to change a MIDI track's MIDI channel.
Cool, forgot about Cubase's odd feature, the whole "VST Rack thing.
Not as difficult as you've probably made it in your head. I'm firing up DP right now so I'll walk ya though it: Top Menu Project>Add Track>Instruments with Options
A floating selection menu appears that allows you assign as many MIDI tracks as you want to, to a single Kontakt/etc. instance. To allow yourself to use the instance in all Chunks, select the kontakt VI in the Tracks Overview and right click to move Kontakt to the V-Rack.

For audio routing it's busses. Kontakt and the like automatically show up as audio sources in the inputs of Audio and Aux tracks much the same way that ReWire Slaves show up in Logic and Cubase as audio sources, using the bus channels you can route a Kontakt audio out to an input if you wanted to.

If you always create a Kontaktr instance with 16 MIDI channels and 16 stereo outs. You can save it as a DP Clipping and just drag and drop that setup into any project. That includes the sample library if you want, so if you use strings all the time with a certain template, then it's always accessible in seconds.
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by magicd »

Welcome MDesigner!

In addition to the amazingly helpful people on this forum, I'd like to offer my direct contact info in case I can ever be of service. Don't be shy about asking questions!

Best,
Dave

magicd@motu.com
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by mikehalloran »

You will find Dave's 2014 NAMM videos and direct links to other videos in this section. Some are made by members for the rest of us.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=27
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by MDesigner »

Michael: Ahh, that worked! I was able to make 16 MIDI channels routed to VE Pro, and I just add aux tracks, choosing the VE Pro stereo inputs, and boom, I've got sound. An aux track for each patch coming in from VE Pro. I even added another aux track for reverb and routed the VE Pro aux tracks through it.. though I can't quite figure out how to attach my reverb plugin to the reverb aux. :) But this is a good start. Also, too bad there's no quick way to auto create 16 aux tracks with the inputs routed sequentially (e.g. VE Pro 3-4, VE Pro 5-6, etc). That would be a great time saver. Cubase does this.

I appreciate the welcome wagon, guys. Wow, and even a direct contact to a MOTU product specialist! On Steinberg's forums, you can hardly get tech support to pay attention to issue reports.

I have a feeling once I get past the learning curve of DP, I'll like it. I'm just tired of Cubase's bugs and their slow attempts to fix them. I rely on my sequencer for working on projects daily, and I don't have time to mess around with software misbehaving.
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

My 2¢? Get into every menu and try everything that looks useful. Sink then swim. If you're reasonably good with learning curves it might take a week or two but then you're done. Sure books and classes can help but ultimately we teach ourselves, just like everything in life.
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by bayswater »

MD, I'm a Cubase refugee too. You will never look back.

Not sure if it's exactly the same as current Cubase versions, but try this to get a quick setup for a multichannel VI.

Create the instrument track using the options to add 16 MIDI tracks. These will be assigned sequentially to the 16 MIDI channels for the VI.

Use Create Multiple Aux tracks, make 16 of them

Use Bundles to create output bundles for the VI created above, using the option to create multiple outputs. Make sure they are vertically arranged in the window. (Bear in mind that the output for the first output pair is already created above-- you have to bus the first output to the first aux)

Select the Aux tracks, and use the Assign Audio window to assign their inputs sequentially to the outputs just created.

Once you've created this, look into templates and clippings as ways to make it so you don't ever have to do this again.
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Maybe have been said before but printing the Commands window can tell you a lot about what's under the hood. The TIPS SHEET section of the main forum is also great.
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by labman »

Along with what MLC said about menus, I would suggest getting KeyCue, as it lets you 'see' all the menus at one time, and is a great way to more quickly memorize hotkeys.

And of course, DP's manual is superb!!!
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

+1 for key cue. It likes to ask for updates which is where little snitch comes in. Also can't stress how much easier Quickeys makes life in DP.
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Re: Best way/videos to learn DP as fast as humanly possible?

Post by Michael Canavan »

bayswater wrote: Use Create Multiple Aux tracks, make 16 of them
You reminded me of this. This is a key command feature. On my system this is control-option-shift-A
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