Putting a screen in front of singers...red light-itis?

wonder · Post by **wonder** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:40 pm

I've been long wanting to add a monitor or large plasma in the live room for vocalists. I find when I'm doing punches or voice over or overdubs, if a singer is trying to match another singers phrasing or timing, if they'd be able to SEE the waveform, it'd be SO much faster. I can see the waveform changes and can tell where the original track changes and when I've had singers just stay in the control room to overdub, it goes SO much faster and easier.

My question is...does anyone else do this?

And what of the psychology of it? I've had many times where the first "rehearsal" pass is awesome ... but then when we say "let's try some takes", the magic goes away. Not always, of course, but a lot of times.

Anyone think this will bring on some red-light-itis with singers and/or musicians?

IF you do this ... has it helped? And how do you run long monitor cables to your live room?

I just went to Best Buy and was floored by the cheap prices of flat screen TVs now ... so it might be time to invest.

Marc7777 · Post by **Marc7777** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:36 pm

I put a monitor in the iso booth that mirrors one of my 2 monitors. (I use a VGA splitter)

I use it all the time for players to show them MIDI that they are replacing or playing to, show a vocalist waveforms to sing with, etc.

It seems to help more than it does distract.

I use a small monitor. I'd be careful about getting something like a plasma TV screen because sometimes they buzz. Obviously that wouldn't be good for a recording space!

Cheers!

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:17 pm

Marc7777 wrote:I use it all the time for players to show them MIDI that they are replacing or playing to, show a vocalist waveforms to sing with, etc.

It seems to help more than it does distract.

This ^^^

I have a 42" LCD n my live room. I use it most of the time when I record others. The exception is, when I have talent who are not familiar with my studio, and don't appear to be using it anyway.

I want the talent to see what I'm doing. I can show them areas with the cursor, MIDI notes or waveforms to sing to like Marc says, and, they always know when they're recording. I can also record myself, if I can get my USB keyboard to work, or the DP Control dinosaur to work on the iPad (harder).

I've never had anyone freak out and ask me to turn the display off.

Also, I do not believe it has ever negatively affected performances. It is not the same as a camera, which would.

wonder · Post by **wonder** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:52 pm

Killahurts wrote:
Marc7777 wrote:I use it all the time for players to show them MIDI that they are replacing or playing to, show a vocalist waveforms to sing with, etc.

It seems to help more than it does distract.
This ^^^

I have a 42" LCD n my live room. I use it most of the time when I record others. The exception is, when I have talent who are not familiar with my studio, and don't appear to be using it anyway.

I want the talent to see what I'm doing. I can show them areas with the cursor, MIDI notes or waveforms to sing to like Marc says, and, they always know when they're recording. I can also record myself, if I can get my USB keyboard to work, or the DP Control dinosaur to work on the iPad (harder).

I've never had anyone freak out and ask me to turn the display off.

Also, I do not believe it has ever negatively affected performances. It is not the same as a camera, which would.

Any problem with noise from the LCD leaking into the mics?

I use a 30 inch apple cinema display in the control room and would like to put a nice plasma in the live room. Does it take up processing power to run multiple monitors?

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:57 pm

wonder wrote:I've been long wanting to add a monitor or large plasma in the live room for vocalists. I find when I'm doing punches or voice over or overdubs, if a singer is trying to match another singers phrasing or timing, if they'd be able to SEE the waveform, it'd be SO much faster. I can see the waveform changes and can tell where the original track changes and when I've had singers just stay in the control room to overdub, it goes SO much faster and easier.

My question is...does anyone else do this?

Who cares? It's a good idea! I kid... but I'd avoid the habit of worry about if anyone else does something when you get a good idea!

But to reassure you... I do this myself. I track my own vocals and have found that once I've got the lead vocal down to where I like it and I decide to track backing vocals, it helps me to watch the waveform as I'm singing to make sure I sing the notes for the proper duration. Also sometimes if your singing the last note of a phrase, it's better to err on the side of a long duration. That way you can take the scissor tool and snip in the middle of the sustaining part of the note and then use the slip tool to get release of the sung notes to match... especially if the word ends with a consonant.

wonder · Post by **wonder** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:24 pm

I can probably just use it when needed...for backing vocals, doubling, punching, etc.

Any recommendations on brand and size? My live room is fairly big (17' ceilings). I'm not sure where i'd mount it ... or it might be cool to have it on a stand that can roll. If it were wall mounted, the bigger the better I'm guessing since the singers would be fairly far away from the screen...

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:23 am

wonder wrote:
Killahurts wrote:
Marc7777 wrote:I use it all the time for players to show them MIDI that they are replacing or playing to, show a vocalist waveforms to sing with, etc.

It seems to help more than it does distract.
This ^^^

I have a 42" LCD n my live room. I use it most of the time when I record others. The exception is, when I have talent who are not familiar with my studio, and don't appear to be using it anyway.

I want the talent to see what I'm doing. I can show them areas with the cursor, MIDI notes or waveforms to sing to like Marc says, and, they always know when they're recording. I can also record myself, if I can get my USB keyboard to work, or the DP Control dinosaur to work on the iPad (harder).

I've never had anyone freak out and ask me to turn the display off.

Also, I do not believe it has ever negatively affected performances. It is not the same as a camera, which would.

Any problem with noise from the LCD leaking into the mics?

I use a 30 inch apple cinema display in the control room and would like to put a nice plasma in the live room. Does it take up processing power to run multiple monitors?

I have an older 42" LCD display in the live room, which has its power and I/O in a separate box. Luckily, it's silent. It doesn't take any more processing in my case because it comes off a DVI splitter (expensive) that mirrors my 60" in the control room. The source comes from only one DVI output from the computer, which is 35' away in the machine room, and extended by an (also expensive) DVI over CAT5 extender. I believe that if I were to use the second DVI port instead, it would take more processing from the video card- not as bad for mirroring as it would be for a different second display.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:33 am

Isn't matching vocal takes something that VocAlign does?

wylie1 · Post by **wylie1** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:32 am

You may want to stay away from the plasma's there heavy and throw off allot of heat.
The new LED's are nice.

dix · Post by **dix** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:12 pm

...in my case because it comes off a DVI splitter (expensive)...

Expensive? Splitters look cheap. Less than $20. Am I missing something?

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:36 pm

Be sure to put a mirror in the vocalist isolation room. It prevents loneliness by giving them company with their favorite person, just like it does for parakeet budgies.

Shoosh

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:37 pm

David Polich wrote:Isn't matching vocal takes something that VocAlign does?

I assume so. Although anything that helps it occur naturally isn't necessarily bad. The results can be more realistic and organic sometimes. I used to try really hard to correct pitch on backing vocals, until they ended up sounding totally lifeless and fake. I guess it depends on the genre you're working in and whether "real sounding" is considered desirable.

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:55 am

dix wrote:
...in my case because it comes off a DVI splitter (expensive)...
Expensive? Splitters look cheap. Less than $20. Am I missing something?

IIRC, it was a few hundred when I got it several years ago.. remember, Geffen was the only game in town in those days. This is not a simple wire splitter, it has the power to drive large monitors with high max dual-dual resolution, with cable runs of 100' or more.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're $20 now though.. my first USB (1) extender over CAT 5 cables, was $400!

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:21 pm

I love how technology gets cheaper these days! Recently, I thought I lost a Bluetooth headset for my iPhone. I was bummed because when I bought it, it cost about $79. Went to the store to get a new one. The same one was $25 now. I'd forgotten that I hadn't bought one in about five years.

Of course, then I found my old one, and now I have two. Now one stays in the house and the other stays in the car!

HCMarkus · Post by **HCMarkus** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:29 pm

wylie1 wrote:You may want to stay away from the plasma's there heavy and throw off allot of heat.
The new LED's are nice.

+1

Also, LCD TV's, backlit with LED or Florescent backlighting, won't burn in like plasma.

But I really think Shooshie nailed it here with the mirror thing.

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