MOTU LISTENS !!!

Discussion of Digital Performer use, optimization, tips and techniques on MacOS.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by FMiguelez »

Yes... They do listen.

For months I've been whining about clippings not preserving their track folder structure. Same with dragging chunks into TO windows... they just didn't translate.

Well... NOW THEY DO!!! 8) 8) 8)

I was pleasantly surprised to discover that, with DP8.06, dragging clippings or chunks into the TO do preserve this folder structure.

THANK YOU MOTU!! :unicorn: :unicorn:

This is a great step in the right direction. And since you listen, MOTU, I have a couple of observations, however:
–The folder structure is preserved, BUT the tracks appear outside of the folders. So the folders are fine (including their structure), but the tracks get all grouped together outside them all, at the root level.
This happens with both, clippings and dragged chunks (sequences).

–When undoing one of those operations, the tracks DO go away, but all the folders are left behind, leaving a mess that one must manually clean by deleting the folders.


I wouldn't mind the first point so much if we had a way to quickly get tracks into folders, like by dragging multiple tracks into them. Bam! That would be great!

But obviously, this could be improved by getting the tracks inside the correct folders.


On a positive closing note, DP8 is like a box of chocolates... It's full of little pleasing surprises. Like they say, it's the little things. After a few minutes of playing around with it, I can really feel the sweet taste of overall improvement (and I'm talking about ONLY DP, not my new system overhaul, which is working amazingly well so far - I will create a new thread about that after a few more tests).

A few things I LOVED:
– The Welcome window is so cool and convenient
– The way plug-ins are now organizable
- It was great to discover that autosaved files now go in their own folder and one can choose how many to leave behind.
– The double "t" bars helping visually to manage bundles better (I wish we could have the same for editing velocities and CCs)
– The way one can pop in and out the Transport window
– How we can now drag and drop sends. This is AWESOME!!!!

MOTU, in my book you deserve a star. And a big cookie. And a million litters of tequila. And a big hug and congratulations note!

Really. I hadn't been so pleased with software since VE Pro. All my transition worked flawlessly, my template works perfectly, along with all its complex subtleties (all VI and pllug-in automation with Novation's automap, all my custom bundles, which the heart of my template), etc.

100000 gracias, MOTU :unicorn: :unicorn: :unicorn:
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
apanacci
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Toronto

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by apanacci »

Up in Canada we call it liters ! Glad to hear things were fixed.
2009 8 Core 5.1, 2012 6 Core MacPro,s , (32 gigs Ram) Mojave 14.6, Radeon 570, MacBookPros 2011, 2017 , 828MKIII Hybrid, 828X, MicroBook II, 8Pre, Nuendo 8ch A/D converter, PreSonus DigiMax LT ,DP11 , PT 2022.12, Cubase Elements 10.5, Peak 7, Logic 9 ,WaveLab 11, Reason 10, DSP-Quattro 5 ,many plugins , mics and synths. http://www.panaccimusic.com
User avatar
adriano
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Quarryville, PA

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by adriano »

apanacci wrote:Up in Canada we call it liters ! Glad to hear things were fixed.
In some countries, 1 litter = 10 liters. :rofl: :rofl:
iMac9,1, 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 8GB-RAM, 10.9.5
DP 8.07, 828MKIII, Keys-Fantom X8, XV-88. Key

SampleTank v2.5.4, Miroslav Philharmonik v1.1.2, SampleMoog v1.02, SampleTron v1.02, Sonik Synth 2 v2.1.1, Independence Pro v3.2.0126, EZDrummer 1.4, MDrummer Large 5.02, Komplete U9, Orchestral Essential 1, Orchestral Essential 2, Complete Orchestral Collection

Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence.
labman
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by labman »

Hey FM. Do you know if you have to rebuild your DP prefs do you lose all your plugin organization?
AMPGUI themes - Andy rocks!, 3 macs, MacPro 768GB ram, 16core OS11.7.10, DP11.31, all Waves, all SLATE, PSP, IK multimedia & Audioease plugs, all PAlliance, Softube, tons of NI VI's all air Spitfire, all Audiobro, all Berlin, EW PLAY, LLizard, MachFive3, Kontakt5, Omnisphere, RMX, LASS, all Soundtoys, Lexicon AU's, melodyne and others I know am forgetting, cause I'm old...Also mucho outboard rigs, MTPs, DTP, antelope WC, and 4 control surfaces with Raven.
User avatar
Babz
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by Babz »

Yes indeed, have to agree. MOTU really HAS been bringing their "A" game lately.

We notice and we appreciate. Keep up the good work!

MOTU RAWKS harder than ever!!!!

:unicorn: :unicorn: :unicorn: :woohoo: :unicorn: :unicorn: :unicorn:

Babz
User avatar
bayswater
Posts: 11961
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:06 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by bayswater »

apanacci wrote:Up in Canada we call it liters ! Glad to hear things were fixed.
litres, actually.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
User avatar
James Steele
Site Administrator
Posts: 21230
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: San Diego, CA - U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by James Steele »

FMiguelez wrote:Yes... They do listen.

For months I've been whining about clippings not preserving their track folder structure. Same with dragging chunks into TO windows... they just didn't translate.

Well... NOW THEY DO!!! 8) 8) 8)
Thanks for this post, Fernando. I often feel bad that MOTU takes such a beating here sometimes, often from new board members who sign up mostly for the opportunity to lay into MOTU over some issue or another. They ARE listening and they are working on it.

Now... if they would get to MIDI Objects... hehehe... :)

:headbang: :unicorn:
JamesSteeleProject.com | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter

Mac Studio M1 Max, 64GB/2TB, MacOS 14.5 Public Beta, DP 11.31, MOTU 828es, MOTU 24Ai, MOTU MIDI Express XT, UAD-2 TB3 Satellite OCTO, Console 1 Mk2, Avid S3, NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, Red Type B, Millennia HV-3C, Warm Audio WA-2A, AudioScape 76F, Dean guitars, Marshall amps, etc., etc.!
User avatar
Kubi
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:51 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by Kubi »

labman wrote:Hey FM. Do you know if you have to rebuild your DP prefs do you lose all your plugin organization?
Not sure about this particular issue, but it's always a good idea to make a copy of your prefs folder when things are set up to your liking and working well. This way, if and when things go south, instead of simply rebuilding prefs by trashing them you can replace corrupt prefs with a "clean" version with all your settings intact.

:koolaid:
Kubi
---------------------------------------------------
Kubilay Uner
http://kubilayuner.com
MacPro 2x2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 20GB RAM; OS 10.9.5; DP9.01; MOTU 2408mk3 & MIDI Express 128 w/latest drivers
VitcoMusic
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:07 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: NC
Contact:

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by VitcoMusic »

One reason why they've lasted this long....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mac Studio Ultra 64gb; Motif 8; Novation Summit, Yamaha MOXF6, Mach Five Three; Altiverb, UVI Stuff, Acoustic Legends; Plugsound Pro; Fender Strat; Stylus, Omnisphere 2.8, Trillian
labman
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by labman »

Kubi wrote:
labman wrote:Hey FM. Do you know if you have to rebuild your DP prefs do you lose all your plugin organization?
Not sure about this particular issue, but it's always a good idea to make a copy of your prefs folder when things are set up to your liking and working well.
:koolaid:
Thats exactly what we do Kubi ! And we replace with our clean sets after any crash. But if I recall correctly our engineer said we would lose them, and with all our other, customizations it would take even more to rebuild with each install update etc.
AMPGUI themes - Andy rocks!, 3 macs, MacPro 768GB ram, 16core OS11.7.10, DP11.31, all Waves, all SLATE, PSP, IK multimedia & Audioease plugs, all PAlliance, Softube, tons of NI VI's all air Spitfire, all Audiobro, all Berlin, EW PLAY, LLizard, MachFive3, Kontakt5, Omnisphere, RMX, LASS, all Soundtoys, Lexicon AU's, melodyne and others I know am forgetting, cause I'm old...Also mucho outboard rigs, MTPs, DTP, antelope WC, and 4 control surfaces with Raven.
User avatar
bayswater
Posts: 11961
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:06 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by bayswater »

If you update the Plugin Sets, these two preference files are immediately modified, so looks like you'll lose it.

/Users/name/Library/Preferences/com.motu.DigitalPerformer Preferences
/Users/name/Library/Preferences/com.motu.DigitalPerformer/MOTU Audio System Prefs

But I see that saved Insert Settings are not in preferences.

/Users/name/Library/Application\ Support/MOTU/Digital Performer/Insert Settings Presets
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by FMiguelez »

labman wrote:Hey FM. Do you know if you have to rebuild your DP prefs do you lose all your plugin organization?
Hey, LabMan.

Actually I upgraded from DP7.24, so I wouldn't know. This feature is next on my list to figure out because it seems really nice.

What I can tell you is that the upgrade couldn't have gone smoother, in terms of my new master computer. Don't ask me how, but even my custom Color Schemes were magically there when I opened my template. All the bundles and VI assignments were there as well. 8)



BTW, I'm finding my new Trackpad unusable with DP (and most other apps). Not only because it just doesn't work (the scrolling is so clumsy), but because it involves a lot of extra movements to operate... Instead of clicking (the click area is hard), I have to tap twice to "grab" something, move it where I want and tap twice again to release it. That's 50% more "clicks" right there. And not only that, but there is NOT enough precision for things like CC editing, or grabbing those tiny MIDI bars in the GE.
The moment I switched back to my wired mouse, I was 100 times faster and more precise. Scrolling works perfectly in DP with a regular mouse. At first I was a little disappointed thinking DP was not fluid enough, but then I was flying in it with a normal mouse.

For the moment I have them both, so I can still try the trackpad for certain things and take the mouse for DP-related stuff.

Still installing and moving libraries around... Not much fun, is it?
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
labman
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: Unspecified

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by labman »

FM, do you have 'tap to click' or whatever it is called turned on in the trackpad prefs?
AMPGUI themes - Andy rocks!, 3 macs, MacPro 768GB ram, 16core OS11.7.10, DP11.31, all Waves, all SLATE, PSP, IK multimedia & Audioease plugs, all PAlliance, Softube, tons of NI VI's all air Spitfire, all Audiobro, all Berlin, EW PLAY, LLizard, MachFive3, Kontakt5, Omnisphere, RMX, LASS, all Soundtoys, Lexicon AU's, melodyne and others I know am forgetting, cause I'm old...Also mucho outboard rigs, MTPs, DTP, antelope WC, and 4 control surfaces with Raven.
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by Shooshie »

FMiguelez wrote:BTW, I'm finding my new Trackpad unusable with DP (and most other apps). Not only because it just doesn't work (the scrolling is so clumsy), but because it involves a lot of extra movements to operate... Instead of clicking (the click area is hard), I have to tap twice to "grab" something, move it where I want and tap twice again to release it. That's 50% more "clicks" right there. And not only that, but there is NOT enough precision for things like CC editing, or grabbing those tiny MIDI bars in the GE.
The moment I switched back to my wired mouse, I was 100 times faster and more precise. Scrolling works perfectly in DP with a regular mouse. At first I was a little disappointed thinking DP was not fluid enough, but then I was flying in it with a normal mouse.

For the moment I have them both, so I can still try the trackpad for certain things and take the mouse for DP-related stuff.
Hey, 'Nando, if you want to get better on the trackpad, I can help you. Please don't scan; read. (yeah, I do it, too. :lol: )

Your problem is three-fold: 1) partly the settings. 2) partly your technique, and 3) partly just giving it some time and letting your muscles learn their jobs on this totally new [to your hands] kind of input device. I forced myself to use nothing but the Magic Trackpad for a few weeks. After that, I never wanted to go back. I have a closet shelf full of Kensington Expert Mouse Pro wireless trackballs — which I hold in the highest esteem as "best trackball ever made" — so I could go back at any time if the Magic Trackpad slowed me down. But... I love this thing too much to switch back!

So, here are some practical suggestions:

• #1, and probably the most important thing of all: use a high wrist rest. You do not want to be flexing your hand backward at all when using this. Your fingers should feel very relaxed. My wrist rest is 4.2 cm tall, and doesn't sink in more than 0.5 cm.

• Turn off "Tap to Drag" in the Trackpad Prefs. That will fix your dragging problem. You can then click, drag, and release to move an object where you want it. When you get comfortable with it, it feels like one movement.

• Grabbing tiny things: move the cursor as close as you can get without having to correct a lot, then rock your finger in any direction for fine-control. I CC edit every day. My speed at the MIDI Graphic Editor has not slowed any, and has probably gotten a little faster when compared to a trackball.

• For the most precise moves that require perfect releases as well as perfect clicks, use the thumb to click (or to hold down) the corner (button) and position the cursor lightly with the forefinger, lifting it before you click, and raising it before you release the "mouse button."

• Get JiTouch. Set up custom gestures for each application. Learn to use the "alphabet" commands, which also can be customized per app. It will take some time to get proficient at the alphabet commands, but they are fantastic. I haven't counted them all, but I think you could easily have 50 or more gestures available per app. Maybe a lot more.

• Commit and practice. If you are a proficient keyboardist and decide to pick up the violin, do you really expect to be 100% as fast on it as you are on your keyboard? No. And the way to get there is practice. It goes pretty quickly.

SCROLLING
The latest versions of DP and OS X scroll well, now that I've figured out the problems. Keep in mind that until Mavericks, scrolling on a Magic Trackpad was probably the most amazing thing EVER. Now, in DP 8.06 and OS X 10.9.2, things are pretty much back to normal. No more hesitation. But there were some problems that had to be fixed.

1) In the preference folder(s), do a search for "Trackpad" and throw out all the Apple prefs that come up. I found three prefs for the Magic Trackpad, one of which was a .exe file. Throw them out and reset your prefs manually.

2) Do the same for JiTouch if you've had it a while, but keep only the one with the most recent date.

3) Magic Trackpad Prefs / More Gestures / Swipe between pages: turn OFF
This will fix scrolling and page swiping in Safari. The "swipe" in Mavericks is not right. Apple has to fix it, but they haven't admitted to a problem yet. Maybe yours won't be a problem. I don't know. But after I did this, everything cleared up. 4) In JiTouch, replace the page swiping in Safari with non-swiping gestures. There are plenty to choose from so that you won't miss swiping. Other apps can use a swiping gesture for page control. Safari, for some reason, can't.

5) Magic Trackpad Prefs / Scroll & Zoom / Scroll Direction: Natural - turn OFF. If this is ON, it reverses the scrolling direction in OS X (they call it "natural" scrolling). Unfortunately, in Digital Performer it will cause faders to run backward. Turn it off and DP faders will return to normal.

When I turned off page-swiping, the last remaining problems in Mavericks cleared up. I don't know why it's working that way, but all these problems started only in Mavericks. Prior to Mavericks, the Magic Trackpad was like the input device from Paradise.

So, if you make some changes in settings, work with your technique a little, and give yourself time to practice and learn the trackpad, you can use it as successfully as I. My guess is that it will seem too much, and you'll go back to your more comfortable and familiar mouse or trackball.

Whatever works for you is great. But if you want to use the Trackpad, what I've written here will help you.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: MOTU LISTENS !!!

Post by Shooshie »

On further investigation, I did not find a setting for double tap-to-drag. Maybe I don't know what you're talking about. The settings I mentioned above work well for me in the current versions of everything. You can try them and see if they help. But double tap to drag? I haven't seen that. At least not recently. I'm pretty sure I've seen it somewhere in the past.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
Post Reply