Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

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FMiguelez
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Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by FMiguelez »

Hello.

I'm just wondering if you guys really know each and all of your current VIs to a great fluent level.

The thing is that I still have lots of VIs I haven't even tried, let alone how to use them to their full capabilities. For instance, last year I bought the whole Komplete enchilada, but so far I have used (and not to the fullest extent) only Kontakt. But all those other goodies, like Reactor, Massive, FM, etc., remain untouched for total lack of time to sit down and learn them. This Komplete package, especially, is so daunting I wouldn't know where to begin!

I just wonder how you guys set time apart from your working schedules to learn all this stuff... Do you tackle one new VI at a time? Do you just learn the basics, or do you really go deep into them?
Do you wait for a project where you need VI-x to learn it as you go? Or perhaps you have set apart some time every week for this purpose?

I think I almost master the ones I use the most (DP, Waves, all the VSL stuff, Spectrasonics, MF, etc.), but this seems to never ever end!

I am making this trimester's schedule, and I wonder how much time I should allow for just learning VIs. Perhaps I could squeeze 4 hours a week, which, in the long run, should give me some results.

Am I the only one in the forum who doesn't master every VI or plug-in he owns? I just want know where I stand regarding this, and where do you find the time to learn them fully..

Thanks!

Thanks for any ideas.
Last edited by FMiguelez on Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by mikehalloran »

I don't even know everything my 2004 Prius can do.

I try to learn as much as I can to get the jobs done. I don't know how to make much more time than that.
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by David Polich »

No, I don't master all of my VI's. I don't have a good handle on a lot of them, actually.
Due to limited time availability and project deadlines, 99% of my time spent with VI's is
simply auditioning presets until I come upon one I think will fit what I need, and maybe I'll
tweak it a bit.

Any virtual analog VI is easy for me to understand, they're all based on the Minimoog idea,
so working with those is a walk in very familiar territory. Something like Reaktor, Absynth,
Omnisphere - I've barely scratched the surface.

If I've been hired to do presets for a certain VI, then yes I have to develop a clear understanding
of that VI, obviously.
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by Shooshie »

I haven't mastered any plugins, but I've taken a few to extremes that are probably unusual. First of all, when I get a bunch of plugins, as in a bundle of some sort (Waves, Blue Cat, Nomad Factory, etc.) I spend an evening or two opening all the plugins and seeing what each one does on some music I'm familiar with — a file or two that I use for such things. Most of them are usually different versions of other plugins that I already use, so those get shoved out of the picture. I rarely go back to those. The ones that offer something unique are the ones that I play around with. Of those, few end up being practical for what I do, but I enjoy playing with them all, just to learn their "acoustic" properties.

So, after coming up with a small list of plugins that I use over and over, I learn their sonic principles and acoustic properties. If they are modeled after analog plugins, they are easy to figure out. Sound works the same way everywhere. Digital plugins, however, can do things that aren't possible acoustically, so they take longer to figure out, usually.

The important thing, for me, is not learning just what each knob will do to the sound, it's learning the principles involved. "What's really happening, here?" Each knob and button has a function, so what IS that function? How does that function contribute to the overall sonic change? What acoustic properties are invoked? What digital tricks are being used? Once I can see from input to output how the sound is changed, and how the changes are modulated, then it becomes pretty easy to use. But that brings up the most important part:

When adding plugins, I start with a sound in mind. Of course, I know what I can get out of digital delays, companders, and other amazing plugins that can really alter the sound beyond any recognition of its origin, so I don't feel limited in what I can imagine in a sound. If I can imagine it, there is probably a way to make it happen. Taking a mental snapshot of the sound I want, I figure out what needs to be altered to get that sound, in terms of formants, harmonics, LFOs, and such. I may not be right on the mark, but that usually gets me close enough to require a lot less experimentation. It's a matter of really focusing on the sound; closing eyes and "stepping into" the sound, imagining it frozen like a sculpture, and figuring out what I'm really hearing.

Sound may seem complicated, and producing sounds may use complicated tools, but the actual sound is just waves. Lots of them. Each of them has a frequency and amplitude. Once you begin to see those, it becomes a lot easier to figure out what you need to do to change them. And that's what leads you to a particular plugin. Often, along the way, I'll happen upon changes that I like better than what I imagined, so I go that direction instead, but always with my ears and eyes open, figuring out what changed, how it got there, and what is the result.

As an example, I was unhappy with a recording of the upper register of a piano. It sounded fine by itself, but when it was competing with the ensemble sounds (which included other pianos) the phenomenon called masking was taking away 90% of its decay. All you could hear were the little peaks of the attacks, and high register has very little decay to begin with. The result was really irritating, like a stunted xylophone. How could I get more sustain out of those notes? The answer was in Waves' C4 processor (now I'd use C6 or the Linear Multiband Processor, aka C5). I used the threshold to sense the peaks and to expand the amplitude as it decayed. I'd have to go through that process again to tell you exactly where I set the controls, but it changed the shape of the decay curve and more than doubled the length of the initial decay, after which it ceased to have any effect at about the point where the piano's sound dived under the masking of the ensemble. The high register was a LOT more pleasant, then, giving the ear time to make sense of it as a string vibration, not a percussive bell.

In a way, I think it's backward to want to master plugins. The real thing you're learning to master is the bundle of vibrations that you hear at any moment. I keep a frequency chart by my desk at all times. It has the piano keyboard, and beside each key is its frequency, its key number, its MIDI number, along with the note name and octave number. The piano only goes up to 4186.01 hz, but a couple of octave doublings quickly gets that near the limit of hearing range, so you don't need more than what's there. This helps me to pinpoint the pitch that I'm hearing. If I want to get more precise, I use the great meters by Blue Cat.

Sorry for the length; I could probably edit it down to:

1) Listen
2) Analyze
3) Imagine and re-analyze
4) Choose tool (plugin) for the job you hear
5) Make it happen

It's amazing how intuitive most plugins really are when you already know what you want them to do. This, by the way, turned out to be one of the most fun and rewarding parts of digital, in-the-box mixing. I came here for the convenience and control it gave me as performer and engineer. Then I discovered the hidden powers of plugins, and the fun of making sounds that I could only imagine, previously.

And always: careful analysis is the key to just about everything.

Shooshie
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

It's a matter of priorities. Once I find what I need (what I envision for a particular project) I can stop looking. Sometimes I can't find it and have to actually buy a VI or plug. Then I stop looking, but have to learn it. I know some better than others, like the Wavestation. I've had three or four WSADs and used to program more in those days. If I had to, I could go back to it, but there are a few VIs and many more plugs I haven't really needed and don't know them at all aside from playing with them.

Same goes for a few programs on my Mac and iPhone. I have way more than I ever use and have put a moratorium on new impulse buys for that reason.
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by FMiguelez »

I admit I feel relieved reading those responses. Very centered and pragmatic.

Perhaps I'm just setting unrealistic expectations for myself, as usual :shake:
I just feel guilty sometimes about not even using so much of the stuff I have (and spent lots of money on).

Also, I should probably have explained what I meant by "mastering" a plug or a VI:

I would say I master a plug-in or VI when I am able to comfortably translate into sound what I hear in my mind. When I know exactly what tool to use –and how to use it- to create the sound (or music) I'm hearing inside.
When I don't need to get distracted by learning something or not being sure how to achieve x result when I am composing, because when I compose, I just want to compose. When I know the "theory" behind the VI's principles and can apply it to get the results I want from it.

IOW, when I can intuitively reach for a tool to get what I hear inside my head.

That would basically cover what I mean by "mastering" something (and not passing some kind of proficiency test or just knowing what the knobs do in theory, etc.).


I don't know... I just wish our days lasted 40 instead of just 24 hours.

I loved your comment, MLC, about it being a matter of priorities. This is especially relevant if one considers that the topic of this thread only covers VI's and plugs, but if we consider ALL other aspects and things we love in life, then it is really essential to prioritize.

In my case, that's a little easier said than done...
I find it hard to prioritize among all my favorite things, such as composing, educating myself in science and philosophy, learning more about music and engineering, programming, playing the piano, spending time with people I love, etc., especially because of my tendency to set unrealistic goals or expectations. All that in the middle of actually working long hours to try to make a nice living! And I don't even have children yet (except for the Green One, of course)...

I suppose we must find balance between not being "an apprentice of everything and a master of nothing", but still being able to do all the things you love in life :smash:

So guys, I must say I am a bit relieved to know that I'm not the only one who doesn't "master" or even use a lot of the stuff in the arsenal!! :)
Last edited by FMiguelez on Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by FMiguelez »

.
Last edited by FMiguelez on Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

On a side note, I sometimes find sounds I wasn't looking for and don't get me started on sound design and my TBs of SFX. The irony being that with a large pro library finding just the right found still requires creative editing (thank you MachFive 3) or Foley.
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by Prime Mover »

Anyone who masters anything is a fool and an ignorent bastard. We all have things we can still learn, there are no limits. And there are no rules on how much one has to understand a component before they're supposed to use it. There are countless examples of famous musical lore where the producer/musician was litterally playing around with something they knew nothing about, and came up with something amazing, and just stuck with it. So many keyboardist throught the years have just stuck with presets or slightly tweaked existing ones.

I've been using the Korg Legacy Collection for years now. I suddenly realized the other day that I finally am starting to feel comfortable and confident in using the Monopoly synth. Am I a MASTER of it? God no! It's only a question of not feeling intimidated by it anymore, and the only person that really benefits is me. I could be doing just as good work on a virtual MiniMoog synth, but I wouldn't be anywhere as confident about it. Now that I have Monark, I'll start that battle now, and I know it'll take a while, but it won't stop me from using it in my music. After all, how can we really expect to become comfortable using a piece of gear without seeing it in action?

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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by Dan Worley »

Prime Mover wrote:Anyone who masters anything is a fool and an ignorent bastard.
I can tie my shoes pretty good.
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by Babz »

:rofl:


The best is when you buy something like Komplete, and several of the products are discontinued before you even had a chance to go through and open them all for the first time -- much less master them. A whole year has gone by and you're buying the latest version of Komplete, before you've even opened half the stuff you bought last year. I've had THAT happen to me several times over the years.

And of the ones you HAVE used, have you even found time to go through an auditioned all the presets?


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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by labman »

Dan Worley wrote:
Prime Mover wrote:Anyone who masters anything is a fool and an ignorent bastard.
I can tie my shoes pretty good.
Thanks Dan. I needed that laugh!
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by Prime Mover »

Dan Worley wrote:
I can tie my shoes pretty good.
Yeah, but your grammar could use some work
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by bayswater »

Depend on whether you're talking about the process or the result.
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Re: Do you MASTER ALL your VIs and plug-ins?

Post by Prime Mover »

Babz wrote:And of the ones you HAVE used, have you even found time to go through an auditioned all the presets?
I actually just spent quite a bit of time going through the presets for Monark and Skanner. My fear of Reaktor is quickly diminishing. I really liked them both, although I found the presets for Monark to be largely a joke. But it's a Moog, so it's not really like I'm going to need presets for very long. I'm still a little unclear on how the trill legato works. Sometimes it seems to give priority to the lower note (I think this is how the original MiniMoog worked), but sometimes it appears to work like a more modern analog synth, where the most recently played key gets priority. Yet, I can't find any setting for this.

Anyone?
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