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Live Kick Drum replacement

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Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby zandurian » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:45 pm

Yes - I'm behind the curve on this one. I usually just get the drum sounding right before tracking but this one got by me, I just can't get it sounding right. I remember years ago reading here about a plug called "trigga'"?

So, what's the favorite techniques around here?
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Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby daveyboy » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:09 pm

It's called aptrigga, http://www.apulsoft.ch/aptrigga/ and I have it and it works great. Well, I haven't tried it in the latest version of DP and lion but, it used to work great. I'm sure you're hip to the more expensive alternatives (slate trigger and drumagogg). Probably over kill. If you have access to logic, logic will analyze the track and spit out a MIDI file. Then you can go to town and trigger what ever you want and have it sync.


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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby zandurian » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:56 am

daveyboy wrote:It's called aptrigga, http://www.apulsoft.ch/aptrigga/ and I have it and it works great. Well, I haven't tried it in the latest version of DP and lion but, it used to work great. I'm sure you're hip to the more expensive alternatives (slate trigger and drumagogg). Probably over kill. If you have access to logic, logic will analyze the track and spit out a MIDI file. Then you can go to town and trigger what ever you want and have it sync.


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Thanks for the info db. Will prob start with aptrigga. I do have a copy of logic on my computer so may try that too. It's SO hard for me to get around in other DAWS though :oops:
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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby Tesionman » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:28 am

Another way is triggering the kick drum live with a Roland/DDRUM kick trigger connected to a Drum Module which goes to a channel on recording device/FOH mixer. I use this along with a Mic and blend them. Works great.
Works really well and is often used with Metal music in live settings so the kick can cut through all the guitars etc....

cheers
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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby stephentayler » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:24 am

If you have any Drum VIs or samplers, then MOTU's own Trigger Plugin does a decent job if you are prepared to do a little editing/tweaking of the MIDI... record it to a MIDI track and then fine tune the hits, remove unwanted triggers etc......

Cheers

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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby David Polich » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:05 am

stephentayler wrote:If you have any Drum VIs or samplers, then MOTU's own Trigger Plugin does a decent job if you are prepared to do a little editing/tweaking of the MIDI... record it to a MIDI track and then fine tune the hits, remove unwanted triggers etc......

Cheers

Stephen


I was just about to point this out but Stephen beat me to it. Yes, DP
has a plug-in called "Trigger" which works fairly well.

I use Melodyne to process the audio on a drum track, and then Melodyne can
create a MIDI file from that which I then import back into DP. The advantage of this is that the Melodyne MIDI track is dead-on with the audio.
You still have to go to the MIDI track and set the notes to C1 (or whatever MIDI note you will use to trigger the new sampled kick) and if the original
audio track was recorded at a very low level, you'll need to select all the notes in the MIDI track and use "scale velocity" in DP to "beef them up".
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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby zandurian » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:39 pm

David Polich wrote:
stephentayler wrote:If you have any Drum VIs or samplers, then MOTU's own Trigger Plugin does a decent job if you are prepared to do a little editing/tweaking of the MIDI... record it to a MIDI track and then fine tune the hits, remove unwanted triggers etc......

Cheers

Stephen


I was just about to point this out but Stephen beat me to it. Yes, DP
has a plug-in called "Trigger" which works fairly well.

I use Melodyne to process the audio on a drum track, and then Melodyne can
create a MIDI file from that which I then import back into DP. The advantage of this is that the Melodyne MIDI track is dead-on with the audio.
You still have to go to the MIDI track and set the notes to C1 (or whatever MIDI note you will use to trigger the new sampled kick) and if the original
audio track was recorded at a very low level, you'll need to select all the notes in the MIDI track and use "scale velocity" in DP to "beef them up".
I recently acquired melodyne and haven't realized that feature. Will it put the MIDI directly to DP when being used as a DP plug-in?
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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby zandurian » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:50 pm

stephentayler wrote: record it to a MIDI track and then fine tune the hits"
Cheers

Stephen


I have used it in the past but and as to "fine tune the hits" it seems nuts in this day and age to have the MIDI not retain the exact right spot to trigger from - especially within one the premier MIDI programs of all time which also pioneered the merger of MIDI and digital recording. Yikes.
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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby stephentayler » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:21 am

Well I didn't say MOTU Trigger was the best solution for doing this..... but it is included in DP so it's fine for some experimentation before shelling out for another piece of software. I mostly use other solutions such as apTrigga, and Slate Trigger.... but I nearly always have to do a lot of work on the audio track first... it all depends on the detection part of the trigger plugin.

Cheers

Stephen
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Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby frankf » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:27 am

zandurian wrote:
[DP]...one the premier MIDI programs of all time which also pioneered the merger of MIDI and digital recording. Yikes.


Just points of information, and I'm not disagreeing with your use of "pioneering"

"In 1990, Opcode introduced StudioVision, which added digital audio recording (using Digidesign's digital audio hardware) to Vision's recording and editing platform. StudioVision was the first-ever commercially available product integrating MIDI sequencing and digital audio editing and recording on a personal computer"

"In 1990, MOTU added the ability to synchronise audio (digital audio) to Performer and released it as "Digital Performer," months after Opcode added this capability to Vision. Digital Performer was originally designed as a front-end to Digidesign's Audiomedia hard disk recording system, which later became Pro Tools."
(credit Wikipedia and my memory :)

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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby zandurian » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:06 pm

stephentayler wrote:Well I didn't say MOTU Trigger was the best solution for doing this..... but it is included in DP so it's fine for some experimentation before shelling out for another piece of software. I mostly use other solutions such as apTrigga, and Slate Trigger.... but I nearly always have to do a lot of work on the audio track first... it all depends on the detection part of the trigger plugin.

Cheers

Stephen


Yes, and thanks for your response. Just had to rant a little about MOTU's oversight in not creating a rock solid trigger plug. 8) I remember using it on an old Linn drum dedicated Kick track (brought over from multitrack tape) and it would not record the MIDI very accurately.

I understand the triggering threshold thing though - always takes some work. I usually gate the audio first to make sure I have a clean triggering track
Last edited by zandurian on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby zandurian » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:24 pm

frankf wrote:
zandurian wrote:
[DP]...one the premier MIDI programs of all time which also pioneered the merger of MIDI and digital recording. Yikes.


Just points of information, and I'm not disagreeing with your use of "pioneering"

"In 1990, Opcode introduced StudioVision, which added digital audio recording (using Digidesign's digital audio hardware) to Vision's recording and editing platform. StudioVision was the first-ever commercially available product integrating MIDI sequencing and digital audio editing and recording on a personal computer"

"In 1990, MOTU added the ability to synchronise audio (digital audio) to Performer and released it as "Digital Performer," months after Opcode added this capability to Vision. Digital Performer was originally designed as a front-end to Digidesign's Audiomedia hard disk recording system, which later became Pro Tools."
(credit Wikipedia and my memory :)

Frank



Okay, so they are just a surviving co-pioneer. :wink: I still think MOTU had a superior MIDI program (yes - just an opinion on a subjective matter - I have friends who liked vision better) but my 2408's ability to record 24 simultaneous tracks into DP from my existing adat system for $1000.00 bucks (AND stay in business!)? That's what I call real pioneering. :wink: :wink:
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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby zandurian » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:30 pm

Tesionman wrote:Another way is triggering the kick drum live with a Roland/DDRUM kick trigger connected to a Drum Module which goes to a channel on recording device/FOH mixer. I use this along with a Mic and blend them. Works great.
Works really well and is often used with Metal music in live settings so the kick can cut through all the guitars etc....

cheers
I was triggering that way both live and from 2 inch tape in the 80's (and the Roland logo was involved then as well). I'm hoping for a little more sophistication now (on the pre-recorded triggering side) but I admit - it did "work". :)
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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby csiaudio » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:34 am

I've found good success with Slates' Trigger. May be another option for you.
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Re: Live Kick Drum replacement

Postby David Polich » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:08 am

zandurian wrote:
David Polich wrote:
stephentayler wrote:If you have any Drum VIs or samplers, then MOTU's own Trigger Plugin does a decent job if you are prepared to do a little editing/tweaking of the MIDI... record it to a MIDI track and then fine tune the hits, remove unwanted triggers etc......

Cheers

Stephen


I was just about to point this out but Stephen beat me to it. Yes, DP
has a plug-in called "Trigger" which works fairly well.

I use Melodyne to process the audio on a drum track, and then Melodyne can
create a MIDI file from that which I then import back into DP. The advantage of this is that the Melodyne MIDI track is dead-on with the audio.
You still have to go to the MIDI track and set the notes to C1 (or whatever MIDI note you will use to trigger the new sampled kick) and if the original
audio track was recorded at a very low level, you'll need to select all the notes in the MIDI track and use "scale velocity" in DP to "beef them up".
I recently acquired melodyne and haven't realized that feature. Will it put the MIDI directly to DP when being used as a DP plug-in?


No. When you select "Save as MIDI", you get a dialog box asking where you
want to save the file...I usually save it to the DP project folder, then
reimport it into the Chunks window (by simple dragging). Then I open it,
copy the MIDI track, return to the main sequence, and paste it to the main sequence.
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