Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

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Armageddon
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by Armageddon »

I've been posting this anywhere and elsewhere, but in looking at tape emulator plugs (the only one I own is Waves' Kramer MPX, which is both interesting and a bit of a CPU hog in its own right, but I'm not sure if this is the sound I'm looking for; it always comes off as a bit too harsh, even on its default setting, which, according to Waves, is supposed to be the optimized machine/tape stock) and being disheartened by the fact that Waves 9 allegedly doesn't work with DP yet (meaning, no updated MPX and no analog summing plug emulations!), I came across Harrison Mixbus:

http://www.harrisonconsoles.com/mixbus/ ... index.html

I've downloaded the demo and am about to do a mockup mix with it just to see how the overall ease-of-use and quality stacks up to DP in the box on its own. Because I have an extremely slow computer, I'll end up simply having to port my DP audio files into Harrison Mixbus and use it as an audio-only DAW (it doesn't support MIDI or VIs). HOWEVER, as I understand it, Mixbus is designed to replicate the mixing end of a fully-automated analog Harrison console, plus multi-track and two-track mixdown tape as well as 8-track "analog" summing. In other words, it's meant to emulate what would happen if you mixed on outboard gear from DP (or any other DAW), and it does so via Jack OSX (32 or 64 bit) and via the ability to slave to another DAW for playback. It would seem like the most cost-effective solution ... if it works.

As for in-the-box stuff, the UAD Studer (multi-track) and Ampex (two-track) plugs are supposed to be dead-on accurate.
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kgdrum
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Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by kgdrum »

I have MPX its a nice effect but to me it really doesn't sound like tape.
I already have the UA Studer & Ampex plugs & yes they are amazing and another reason why I have been able to resist getting VTM before its optimized for efficiency.
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by David Polich »

I think there were posts from some Motunationers awhile back reporting
that the Harison Mix Bus was somewhat klugey to work with. Worst aspect of
it is, IMO, it won't work as a plug-in, which at least Slate's stuff does.

If you want the Harrison sound, I think UAD's Harrison EQ would be a much better option:

http://www.uaudio.com/store/equalizers/ ... n-32c.html

Personally, I haven't found a tape emulator plug-in that beats UA's offerings,
and I highly doubt the Harrison Mix Bus will compete with those.
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by David Polich »

Ok, I checked out Harrison's Mix Bus page again last night and came within a
hair's breadth of buying it. A glance at the downloadable owner's manual cured
me of that. The fact that it HAS to use Jack to work is enough of a deal breaker for me. Not to mention that it has no MIDI sequencing...a DAW without
MIDI is worthless. The Mix Bus looks cool, but I figured if I
want a cool new look I might as well go buy a couple of Andy Selby's GUI mods,
which I did.

What strikes me as funny is that one of the screenshots of the Mix Bus reveals UAD's Harrison EQ plug-in instantiated on a track. If the Mix Bus was so authentic, why would they do that?
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by Armageddon »

David Polich wrote:Ok, I checked out Harrison's Mix Bus page again last night and came within a
hair's breadth of buying it. A glance at the downloadable owner's manual cured
me of that. The fact that it HAS to use Jack to work is enough of a deal breaker for me. Not to mention that it has no MIDI sequencing...a DAW without
MIDI is worthless. The Mix Bus looks cool, but I figured if I
want a cool new look I might as well go buy a couple of Andy Selby's GUI mods,
which I did.

What strikes me as funny is that one of the screenshots of the Mix Bus reveals UAD's Harrison EQ plug-in instantiated on a track. If the Mix Bus was so authentic, why would they do that?
Actually, at least what I've discerned so far from the demo, it uses CoreAudio (it only has to use Jack if you're working with Linux, which I don't think has a proprietary audio system). It uses Jack OSX (either 32-bit or 64-bit) to interface with another DAW on your Mac -- as in, if you were streaming tracks out from DP. Again, from what I can discern from it so far, it's designed to stream audio direct out from your DP tracks and into Mixbus. Pretty much as if you were streaming tracks from DP into a real-life automated analog console/summing mixer/tape machine and mixing it that way. Because my machine is as slow as it is, I can't do that, so I would have to record all my VIs in DP, then load the pre-recorded tracks into Mixbus, but I also think there's a way to record the audio out of DP into Mixbus directly via MMC and Jack OSX. I'm not really sure it's designed to do the MIDI thing (and even if it was, it wouldn't be anywhere as good as DP); I only bring it up here because of the possibility of using it as a front end for DP, which is what I think it was designed to do. I don't think it's intended as a full-featured DAW on its own.

Now, the bad news regarding Jack: even though I don't need it for my purposes, since the first time you load it up, you can select CoreAudio and your existing interface over Jack ... you apparently can't turn Jack OSX off. I tried doing it, just to save some CPU and audio confusion and Mixbus immediately began spinning the ol' beachball. Keeping it loaded doesn't force you to use it, you just can't turn it off or Mixbus will crash. That and the ten minute (no lie) first loading are the only two problems I've encountered with it so far. The good news? It appears to be able to operate in 64-bit mode, meaning, it will use all your 64-bit plugs.
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by dix »

There is a VTM version 1.1 now available btw. Couple of bug fixes and tweaks only. It still has the annoying computer keyboard-lockout behavior so many version-one plugins seem to have when they are the active window in DP. No optimization is mentioned in the version-history nor is any perceived in use. Its still a pretty big hog. …but a very beautiful one :)
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by apanacci »

Hey guys. A ? with VTM. If I put it on drums , do I put it on the drum buss or a plugin for all of the drum instruments BD, SN, HH etc. Thanks
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by dix »

Slate's model would have you put it on every track (not on busses - except the master) exactly like you would if you were going to tape. However putting it on a bus would be somewhat beneficial I'm sure and save CPU. ....I've been applying it to tracks off-line on the majority of tracks. Kind of a pain, but it sounds great.
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by mhschmieder »

I haven't had a chance to use VTM yet, or really do any recording or mixing since the move, as I've been focused on studio setup work, so I hope it isn't annoying to ask this question if it's "answered" in the manual or the lit:

Is VTM intended primarily for individual tracks, or does it also work well at the Mastering stage? Is there any reason NOT to use it during Mastering?

The comments about tracks vs. busses got me to thinking about whether I might introduce anomalies at the Mastering stage that I don't notice right away, if using it in place of the Nomad Factory plug-in.

Of course I do intend to use this plug during tracking (or mixing individual tracks, that is) as well.
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by stephentayler »

Well, seeing as there is both a multitrack model and a stereo model, using it on the mix buss or after the fact at mastering are both worth trying. I have done both.

I've been trying it on selected tracks and also on some busses... I haven't had the horsepower (or the time) to try it on every track in a full mix yet... but introducing it on selected subgroups works brilliantly. There are certainly no hard and fast rules using this (as indeed with VCC as well) - if I had had the option back in analog days of whether to go to tape or not I probably would have avoided the tape path on many occasions!

In fact on the last Kate Bush album all the vocals, pianos, drums keys and guitars went to tape first before PT, but the orchestra went directly to digital. Best of both worlds, sonically and practically.

Anyway the great thing is to try it in any configuration and see if you like it.

Cheers

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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by dix »

Right, VTM has settings to emulate a 2inch multi-track as well as a 1/2inch two-track. So, if you had a computer powerful enough (if such a computer exists!) you'd put a plugin set to the 2inch setting 1st on every channel before compressors and eq etc and one on the 1/2inch setting on the master bus after effects (but before a limiter to prevent overs).

Some program benefits from going to tape better than others. I've worked in settings where I've had both direct-to-digital, and from-tape to choose from (by essentially splitting the signals and recording both directly to the daw and from the playback head of a multi-track 2inch) and found that some things really sit in a mix better when they stay all digital. Anything with a pronounced transient (drums, perc, guitars etc) sound noticeably better from tape. Other things may or may not benefit. Counter-intuitively I've found upright basses get pillowy and hard to define when coming from tape and I usually prefer the digital signal if I can choose. …but of course its all a matter of taste!
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by Dan Worley »

Great advice from Stephen and Dix.

Right after getting VTM, as an experiment I applied it (offline) to all 40 tracks of a song that already had a set mix. That didn't work out. It was much too much and everything got off balance and whacky and sloppy. If I would have started the mix with VTM I probably could have made it work, but after the fact it was just too crazy. However, applying it only to the electric guitars and mix buss worked out great. I liked that combo the best for that song. I find that's how I like to work with it -- pick and choose.
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by labman »

For all individual rhythm trks and most all vocs, VCC and VTM go on every track here. Superb combo.

Orch trks depend on source.
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by mhschmieder »

Excellent feedback; thanks.

It's funny timing, as I just moved and now have my recording setup somewhere other than where the miking will occur, and have been considering going back to tape for initial drum tracking vs. considering other options to deal with no wanting to break down and set up my computer multiple times. :-) [ Obviously I am also considering standalone hard disc recording ]

Given how much mojo even the Nomad Factory plug was adding to my mastering (people I know with good ears could tell the difference; others couldn't as it's subtle but does improve the perceived "musicality" or "organic" nature of the recording), I am really looking forward to experimenting with this plug.

The recommendations for different tape width at the tracking vs. mastering stage are very helpful; I know I had read similar suggestions earlier but had forgotten.
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Re: Slate's Virtual Tape Machines (VTM)

Post by dix »

Talked to the very smart feller that did the research and coding for this plugin at AES yesterday. He confirmed that Slate is working on an optimized version, but that VTM will always take a lot of CPU relatively speaking. Apparently the level of detail the model needs simply needs that much power. I can't say enough good things about this plugin. I can't imagine not having part of my process at this point! But, it looks like I'll continue to use it offline a good deal of the time for the time being - until the next gen of Mac Pros materialize and I can afford one.

…also on display and creating a big buzz at Slate was their upcoming Raven controller. Essentially a HUGE iPad. It looked interesting, but they can't/won't say when it will be ready or what the price will be. http://www.slateproaudio.com/products/r ... rettyPhoto
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