WAVES 9 dropping iLOK authorization.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:01 am

davedempsey wrote:Latest Waves release... phase correction plug-in... included in Mercury looks interesting:

Did you have to show me that? I've GOT to have that now. Geez, I hope they have it on sale for a bargain introductory price, but I'll bet they know that suckers like me will be drooling over it at any price.

Shooshie

BobK · Post by **BobK** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:41 am

Shooshie wrote:Did you have to show me that? I've GOT to have that now. Geez, I hope they have it on sale for a bargain introductory price, but I'll bet they know that suckers like me will be drooling over it at any price.

Shooshie

Waves sent an email that said $99 introductory price, but didn't mention the regular price.

rhythm_kitchen · Post by **rhythm_kitchen** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:44 am

...er sorry folks. I did hear 'it' correctly just didn't proof what I typed as in 'transfer of ownership fee' not transfer off the iLOK to non iLOK. And if bundle is over $500 no transfer of ownership fee if bundles are less (is that a ceiling cap or per $500 bundle)?

Speaking about phase correction, the original Pete Wilson Auratones are coming soon as an active phase coherent monitoring solution. Anyway it is the original tooling of Pete Wilson, so not an OEM speaker like SEAS or Volt.)

I am a sucker for the Aphex Aural Exciter, but have type I hardware. Anyone check it out yet for vocals? It doesn't have the frequency control of a type I or II which IMO it needs for tuning in vocals.

I read a lot of folks are using the new Aural Exciter plugin as a BBE type deal for the entire mix (like the original BBE hardware).

Again my apologize to WAVES, all nice folks.

...and at least now WAVES (and MOTU) answer their phones immediately. Wow how things have turned around for the better. Good news bears mixed in with bad news bears for those with now legacy 'Blue' interfaces. All in all from MOTU it is all good news bears.

Yeah I agree also, I think it is best to cover either/or version of the plugins, iLOK or non iLOK. Still I am puzzled why in 2012 we have to use USB 1.1 or 1394a to muddle the hubs so to speak (well at least firewire is like old SCSI) some hubs can and do get 'stuck' in 1.1 if a 1.1 device is attached (I've noticed this on windows XP Pro x86, whether the fix is the Intel ICH10 driver update or not, can't say as I went to W-7 Pro x64 cause the Micro Express didn't get on with the Delta driver.

So if not using PTs 9 or 10 no real reason to swap for a larger hub btw... is the new iLOK USB-2 anyone?

Is there a fee for transfer of ownership of Mercury or Platinum etc if non-iLOK, not certain if I got that right? Anyone?

Was that why he suggested to wait two weeks for the vrs 9 plugins?

RK

stephentayler · Post by **stephentayler** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:46 am

BobK wrote:
Shooshie wrote:Did you have to show me that? I've GOT to have that now. Geez, I hope they have it on sale for a bargain introductory price, but I'll bet they know that suckers like me will be drooling over it at any price.

Shooshie
Waves sent an email that said $99 introductory price, but didn't mention the regular price.

I bought it, I agree this is a must have!! normal price is $200 I think. Always need great problem solving things like this, especially when I have to mix tracks recorded by someone else....

Stephen

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:05 pm

stephentayler wrote:I bought it, I agree this is a must have!! normal price is $200 I think. Always need great problem solving things like this, especially when I have to mix tracks recorded by someone else....

Stephen

Hey, Stephen,
Can you tell me briefly how it works? I mean, do you teach it a phase correlation, and then it locks into it? Does it do it all on its own? or what?

Sheesh… I guess I could download the demo.

Shooshie

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:19 pm

Shooshie wrote:
Hey, Stephen,
Can you tell me briefly how it works? I mean, do you teach it a phase correlation, and then it locks into it? Does it do it all on its own? or what?

Sheesh… I guess I could download the demo.

Shooshie

I've downloaded the latest Mercury installer so I'd be able to tell you a little about how it works some time next week Shooshie - just won't be able to get to the studio for probably another 3 days

... It's great for many reasons to have a studio in another suburb...man needs a place to go sometimes and all ... but it's also a bit of an inconvenience. Sure wish I could afford to upgrade my real estate holdings and blend home and studio into one functionally acceptable space - Sydney real estate prices are outrageous

Can you use a Waves demo version when you have authorized product installed? ... I have a vague recollection that this used to be a problem. Is that now a possibility?
You may recall Shooshie that I'm involved in a piano and vocal album project (which you kindly sent mic placement files in case that was of assistance). That's now become piano, vocal and string arrangements and the pianist insisted on recording all the piano parts without my involvement. Whereas I think he has actually done a remarkably good job, my Dorrough meters are indicating an occasional phase error and I have a niggling suspicion there may be an improvement that can be made... couldn't have been better timing if this new plug does the biz

Prime Mover · Post by **Prime Mover** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:59 am

kgdrum wrote:Prime- why do you think this is a MOTU issue?
From my perspective this is more in WAVES hands.

The hell it is! Sorry, but this just makes no sense. There are literally thousands of fairly recently programmed 32bit plugins out there that are compatible with every single DAW out there, because they all have fully functioning 32bit bridges. If DP is the only DAW that can't run them, it's no one's loss but MOTU and the users: us. Everyone knows that the transition to 64bit is a touchy subject, and must be treaded lightly rather than blazing full speed ahead, that's precisely the excuse that DP users have been using for the past 2 years as to why it's taken so long for the program to go 64bit in the first place. So, to, in one stroke, sever all ties with 3-month old plugins, and those that will NEVER be ported to 64bit is completely lunacy. It's like Apple, circa 2001, releasing iMacs with OSX that couldn't run OS9. Apple would have gone bankrupt. Not only could they run OS9, but they could run it inside of OSX seemlessly, so we had a transition period where OS9 and OSX programs ran beside each other for a good 3-4 years.

Waves is releasing plugins TODAY that are 32bit. They won't all be 64bit ready by the time DP8 comes out. And you know what, if I were Waves, I wouldn't give a damn. It's only the 6th most used DAW. It means absolutely nothing to plugin manufacturers. As long as they have the Logic userbase, Pro Tools userbase, Cubase userbase, and Sonar userbase locked up, then who gives a damn about DP compatibility?

Everyone talks of how unstable bridges are, but from everything I've heard, after the first few versions were ironed out, Logic, Cubase, and Protools bridges are all very sound. Sure, there were initial hickups, but there are with anything.

You do realize that WAVES currently runs all their plugins inside of VST wrappers? That's a far more processing intensive operation than 64bit to 32bit conversion, and it seems to work just fine. They've been doing it for years, and though it would be "nice" if they would make an AU, we've just been happy to use the plugins at all. That's how I feel about 32bit. I'd rather run a slow 32bit bridge then be completely locked out of some very important plugins.

Kgdrum, you've responded very thoughtfully to a lot of my recent post, so I don't really want to piss you off, but I strongly disagree with this sentiment.

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:04 am

Prime,
No offense taken and there might be a hint of good news from your perspective;)
Yesterday, I called MOTU tech support to see if I could get anymore DP8 info,some of the answers as vague as they were for me were a bit telling.
The person I talked to actually said he had no idea if DP8 had any kind of bridging technology as Ver.8 is still being worked on & is not finished as of yet. The way he said it, the DP8 release might not be as soon as we all hoped.
They're obviously working on something......

I'm making an assumption now but remember at NAMM they said nothing about integration of 3rd party plugs or 32bit compatibility,so maybe that's what they're focusing on since NAMM and that's why we haven't heard anything relating to this.

MOTU likes to keep things close to the vest and maybe their silence on this is telling us the obvious.

So who knows they might be
working on this type of bridge.I felt he also was inferring that few if not any of them have actually used DP8.
So while I do think the release is not as imminent as we all hoped, MOTU is obviously working on something.

In another post I quoted Dan Becker from UAD who said most if not all of the 64bit DAW's employ some kind of bridge technology and if that's the case I stand corrected.

My point is the sooner we don't need this and all of our plugs are native 64bit,we will have better running systems with less issues and ultimately I think that's what we all want.

Yes I have many plugs that are 32 bit and I want to use them in 64 but if I need to sacrifice a few to have a better running 64bit DP8,I will. Believe me I feel your pain,I have a Quad card with tons of plugs lots of Waves and countless others.

Unfortunately this is not going to be an overnight transition, we are all speculating with the lack of confirmed information and we will have to see how everything develops.
Originally what I was making a lame attempt at saying is this: the thing I really dislike with the DAW technology is all of the associated headaches,conflicts, planned obsolescence w/ the associated fee$.
In a perfect world & yes I know this is unrealistic.

Ideally & ultimately I want everything to be 64bit without bridges, so we have less conflicts and issues.

burp182 · Post by **burp182** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:57 pm

Based again on my Winter NAMM conversation with the Waves rep, V9 is 64 bit and wrapper free.
We'll see......

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:57 pm

burp182 wrote:Based again on my Winter NAMM conversation with the Waves rep, V9 is 64 bit and wrapper free.
We'll see......

That's in agreement with my understanding of the announcement...like I said earlier, if V9 no longer uses the Waveshells then the plugs must be re-coded so i can't see why they wouldn't all be 64 bit - seems a waste of time otherwise.... not too long before we know for sure

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:24 pm

I assumed the same until I talked to the customer service rep@ Waves on the phone the other day. He said he didn't have the list in front of him on which plugs would be 64bit with the launch of 9.
He also asked me to post clarification in regards to the misinformation regarding the fees the OP stated then later retracted.
I asked the Waves rep if he or someone in Knoxville would come to Motunation & post directly, he was reluctant & asked me to instead fwiw.
I guess we will see soon enough,IMO it does seem like the info from Waves has been morphing since the NAMM announcement, I do wish they'd come here and clarify.

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:43 pm

Prime Mover wrote:
kgdrum wrote:Prime- why do you think this is a MOTU issue?
From my perspective this is more in WAVES hands.
The hell it is! Sorry, but this just makes no sense. There are literally thousands of fairly recently programmed 32bit plugins out there that are compatible with every single DAW out there, because they all have fully functioning 32bit bridges. If DP is the only DAW that can't run them, it's no one's loss but MOTU and the users: us.

Did I sleep through another announcement? Do we know that DP 8 will not run 32 bit plugins??

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:41 pm

bayswater wrote: Did I sleep through another announcement? Do we know that DP 8 will not run 32 bit plugins??

No, as always happens before a major release, we're just arguing with ourselves.

Shooshie

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:32 am

Shooshie wrote:
bayswater wrote: Did I sleep through another announcement? Do we know that DP 8 will not run 32 bit plugins??

No, as always happens before a major release, we're just arguing with ourselves.

Shooshie

No we're not

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:58 pm

@ Shooshie,

Just got back from the studio having installed the latest version of Waves. Played around with the inPhase plug for a while and very quickly reached the conclusion that it's now in the "always go to" box. This is a great tool

I inserted it on 6 different piano recordings all of which had been setting off the phase led on Dorrough meters but also had given me a sense of imbalance. I was able to improve the stereo balance of all the tracks very easily, although the led on Dorrough meter still lights up - don't think I can do much about that and also don't think it matters much. Slight shifts of around 1 to 1.5 ms of the beta track (which is the right hand) really brought the sound into focus. The eq is also very useful, along with separate gain for each side, allowing you to add just the right weight to either side.
Sometimes, when the right and left hand are playing wildly different parts, the waveform doesn't give a useful indication but the correlation meter in the lower right segment will help with moving the right amount - the more blue on the right and the higher the numeric value, the better the phase correlation - if you move it too far the number will decrease from the sweet spot. It's very easy to get good results and with careful use of the eq and gain features, with full use of the various monitoring options, it's not much harder to get excellent results.

I also tried it on a couple of band mixes that I am mastering for a drummer friend, recorded in his home studio. Using the inPhase plug on the masters in Peak improved the punch and focus of the tracks. The waveform displays were far more useful for adjusting phase given there were kick and snare type events which were consistent in left and right waveforms. Correlation and numeric meter reached much higher values in this scenario. Once the phase was adjusted it seemed like more of the ambiance and reverberation in engineers mix came into focus and more subtle nuances in the female vocal were revealed.... extra clarity in the timeline
From this day onwards I will be using inPhase in all my work before I make any eq decisions and referencing back to inPhase after eq. This is one of Waves best efforts to date

MOTUnation.com