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TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Discussion of Digital Performer use, optimization, tips and techniques on MacOS.

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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby Radiogal » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:59 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I'm curious about a few things, Radiogal.

What order were the DAWs employed (which was first, second, third, etc.).

Was that order changed over the course of the test or was the order the DAWs were used the same every time?

To be somewhat empirical, changing the order several times and even replaying the same sample several times and recording specific observations would yield a 'more accurate' or at least believable result.

If the same order was employed each time, it could be argued that other factors may have colored the results, such as ear fatigue, familiarity with the recording, anticipation of high and low points by the listener, etc.

Any comments on this aspect?

Thanks.



"We compared different looped material in sections, played on MBP nr 1,2,3,4 and 5 and even randomly."
Meaning: it was MBP 1-5 and backwards MBP 5-1, than randomly. (that´s why this test took 2,5 hours...)
Only 1 person (the tech operator) that did the DAW switching had the random list with these variations written down.
You can read from my first post what DAW was played first and second, third, fourth and fifth:
Here is the list again.

MBP 1= Digital Performer
MBP 2= ProTools 9
MBP 3= Logic 9
MBP 4= ProTools 10
MBP 5= Cubase (latest version)
MAC PRO 6 Core 3.33 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OSX 10.8.5, DP 8.05 MAC and WIN (64bit/Jbridge) AMPGUI Mellow, Logic 9.1.8, Wavelab 8 MOTU 24I/O (x2), MOTU 2408 MK3 (2x), WAVES Mercury 9, SSL, UAD2Quad, McDSP, Sound Toys, Sonnox, Sonalksis, NomadFactory, T-Racks, P&M, LexPCM, AbbeyRoad, DSM, VCC, VTM, FGX, Melda, EWQL SymphOrch/Piano Gold. Mixingdesk: AMEK Big 44, TK BC-1MK2, SSLcomp clones, GAPPre73, PCM91, TC, FMR. Monitors: Genelec 1031, ADAM A7, >40 mics http://www.ragdollproduction.com
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TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby MIDI Life Crisis » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:08 pm

Cool. The randomness wasn't immediately clear to me. That very convincing and well planned. Great work!
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby Radiogal » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:12 pm

Kubi wrote:Bookmarked that one. Looking forward to the flamefest. :D

One question: Do you know if they used a master fader in DP, or did they have the tracks go straight to the output sans master fader? Lately I've been experimenting with leaving the master fader off, and felt I reliably get a subtle but surprisingly noticeable improvement in width, depth and general 'clarity'. (Needless to say, this is w the master fader doing nothing but sitting there at 0dB, w/ no plug-in.) Def still to be taken with a large grain of salt - haven't done any blind testing, and more importantly, haven't done the comparison when it comes to the printed file yet, which is of course most important. But so far every time I went back and forth, the version without master fader seemed to sound ever so slightly improved. To be continued...


As they used the masterbuss for calibration and the fact they pushed the masterbuss +6 dB for the internal overdrive test I asume it to be most likely it was the DAW masterbuss that was used on all DAWs.
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby Radiogal » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:20 pm

Kubi wrote:Bookmarked that one. Looking forward to the flamefest. :D


:lol: No reactions on Gearslutz yet. No wonder..
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby scooter » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:53 pm

Hey RG,
Thanks for the taste test results.
I wonder which one crashed the most! :D

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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby HCMarkus » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:20 pm

Very cool... MOTU should give you free updates for life RG!
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby FMiguelez » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:57 pm

Amazing!

I'm so proud of DP!

Maybe James, who knows some MOTU guys, would be happy to send them this link. I'm sure they'd be delighted :P

Thank you for all this, Patricia!
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"There's random genetic variation, and non-random survival, and non-random reproduction, which is why, as the generations go by, animals get better at doing what they do. That is quintessentially non-random". ― Richard Dawkins
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby FMiguelez » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:06 pm

some GS guy wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Swedish distributor of Digital Performer secretly sponsored this event.


:roll:

So typical and predictable :lol:

(from RG's GS thread)
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby twistedtom » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:30 am

FMiguelez wrote:
some GS guy wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Swedish distributor of Digital Performer secretly sponsored this event.


:roll:

So typical and predictable :lol:

(from RG's GS thread)

Such small minds.

This is very cool RG!
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby bolla » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:43 am

I'm enjoying reading the responses on GS.
One of the reasons I spend 99% of my time here. :love:
Thanks for putting it out there RG.
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby burn em » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:39 am

Me too Bolla. :koolaid: This is very confirming and entertaining indeed! :dance: Thanks RG!

As much as I find the "DAW Wars" annoying over at GS anonymous. I do enjoy seeing my "team" win for a change. 8)

If it heats up over there I might even post a link over at The Womb. They love a good popcorn sit in.

(Will warn them about the potty mouth James. Feel free to delete this if there's a line I've stepped accross I'm not aware of. :D )
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby burn em » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:48 am

Radiogal wrote:
Killahurts wrote:
Kubi wrote:Please post this on Gearslutz.... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


= hang this slab of meat out in front of the wolves. :lol:



DONE! :)
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/668340-test-5-daws-5-mbp-optical-o-p.html#post7234730


It appears a whole pack of 'em were circling. :lol:

Was good while it lasted... :unicorn: :unicorn: :unicorn: :unicorn: :unicorn: :unicorn: :unicorn:
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby twistedtom » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:38 am

I went over and read the posts, I missed the one where it looks like a fight broke out as one guy removed his posts. RG I think you used your charms and ESP to make the results happen as you had all those guys in one room. :lol: :roll: :deadhorse: No :rofl:
Did you even know what ones were playing?

I sent the link to some one that bragged his head off to me about his PT set up. :twisted: :evil: :unicorn:
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Re: TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby Radiogal » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:59 am

We NEVER knew what DAW was playing.

As I wrote earlier; All DAWs were played MBP 1-2-3-4-5 and then reversed 5-4-3-2-1 and after that randomly. Only the one board member that switched the DAW router knew the random order as he had this listed.
It all took 2,5 hours of listening and listening and speaking and listening.
The question: What did you hear? Is there any difference? How did the DAWs sound. What MBP sounded better in your ears?

Another question: What MBP would you wanna take with you after this test.
All said MBP ONE!

The test results were revealed first after all that..

The critic voices on my GS post are trying to shoot the messenger (me)... I don´t think that will make Logic, Cubase nor PT sound any better ;)

Thing is that I asked them to include DP in this test. I let them use my licens for it. They installed DP on one of the SSES boards MBP.
I didn´t really know what to expect myself.

During the test I was afraid that DP would be on MBP 2 or 3...
Still I felt kinda confident as I have done the same kinda test back in 2002.
Testing PT, Logic, Cubase and DP.
That very test made me start using DP full time after having used DP, Logic, PT and Cubase on different locations and studios.

Yet. Many things have happened during the last 10 years. Many DAWs have been rewritten and updated their audio engine etc.

Strange feeling though that I was the only one yelling "Yeah!" when DP "won" this test.. all engineers looked at me and wondered what just happened..
Some came talking to me and asking about DP.. I really did enjoy that :)
Last edited by Radiogal on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
MAC PRO 6 Core 3.33 GHz, 16 GB RAM, OSX 10.8.5, DP 8.05 MAC and WIN (64bit/Jbridge) AMPGUI Mellow, Logic 9.1.8, Wavelab 8 MOTU 24I/O (x2), MOTU 2408 MK3 (2x), WAVES Mercury 9, SSL, UAD2Quad, McDSP, Sound Toys, Sonnox, Sonalksis, NomadFactory, T-Racks, P&M, LexPCM, AbbeyRoad, DSM, VCC, VTM, FGX, Melda, EWQL SymphOrch/Piano Gold. Mixingdesk: AMEK Big 44, TK BC-1MK2, SSLcomp clones, GAPPre73, PCM91, TC, FMR. Monitors: Genelec 1031, ADAM A7, >40 mics http://www.ragdollproduction.com
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TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P You better read this :)

Postby MIDI Life Crisis » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:00 pm

Perhaps the unicorn has implemented a subliminal message in all tracks!

It would be interesting to repeat the test and playback via MIDI ONLY in all DAWs and see what the results were. In theory, they should all be identical but I'd bet you'd get different responses from the listeners.

Still, it's very encouraging and the fact that GS has their knickers in a knot may indictate there is some validity to the results. LOL
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